Trying To Make Money On Big Brown Today... - Page 8

Damascus '67 · #**141** 08-06-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

It sounds like a clever retort. Jokes on me because I don't know who Dr. Fager is. Will you complete the joke for my purpose?

Go pick up DRF's "The Lives, Times & Past Performances of America's Greatest Thorougbreds". In it you will see GREAT horses of the past...

RollerDoc · #**142** 08-06-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So again, you don't take level of competition into consideration. I can see we're making progress.

Yes I do take level of competition into consideration. I am just getting frustrated that so many of you dilute the accomplishments of Big Brown because of the dismay you all have for his connections (which I am disappointed as well). The Jackson's, Michael Matz, and Edgar Prado they sure are not.

Take them out of the equation and I think we have had a really talented 3 year old to be treated to this year in Big Brown. If the BCC were to be held today, you can take to the bank that I will bet the $400.00 plus that I am up on betting Big Brown this year TO WIN and beat old man Curlin. Uh oh....I know I am really going to get slammed for that one. Just kidding about Curlin.

SniperSB23 · #**143** 08-06-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Yes I do take level of competition into consideration. I am just getting frustrated that so many of you dilute the accomplishments of Big Brown because of the dismay you all have for his connections (which I am disappointed as well). The Jackson's, Michael Matz, and Edgar Prado they sure are not.

Take them out of the equation and I think we have had a really talented 3 year old to be treated to this year in Big Brown. If the BCC were to be held today, you can take to the bank that I will bet the $400.00 plus that I am up on betting Big Brown this year TO WIN and beat old man Curlin. Uh oh....I know I am really going to get slammed for that one. Just kidding about Curlin.

Barbaro wasn't great either! It has nothing to do with the connections, it has to do with a complete disconnect from the history of the game.

RollerDoc · #**144** 08-06-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Barbaro wasn't great either! It has nothing to do with the connections, it has to do with a complete disconnect from the history of the game.

Barbaro only was not yet great because of the tragedy at the Preakness. He might have been great, maybe he wouldn't have. Would have loved to seen that match up against Bernardini. Personally I think Barbaro would have had more heart than Bernardini at the wire of the BCC vs. Invasor.

Regarding history, I am not qualified to compare Alex, Big Brown, Barbaro, et all with the great horses before them. The real problem with me saying great horse in Afleet Alex's case is because somebody created the category of "super horse." So if that is an actual category that I frequently see on this Board, then no Afleet Alex was not a Super Horse but yes, he was a "great" horse.

Damascus '67 · #**145** 08-06-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Barbaro only was not yet great because of the tragedy at the Preakness. He might have been great, maybe he wouldn't have. Would have loved to seen that match up against Bernardini. Personally I think Barbaro would have had more heart than Bernardini at the wire of the BCC vs. Invasor.

Regarding history, I am not qualified to compare Alex, Big Brown, Barbaro, et all with the great horses before them. The real problem with me saying great horse in Afleet Alex's case is because somebody created the category of "super horse." So if that is an actual category that I frequently see on this Board, then no Afleet Alex was not a Super Horse but yes, he was a "great" horse.

As much as I liked Afleet Alex, I wouldn't put him in the category of a "great horse'..maybe one of the best horses this decade, but if you want the definition of a great horse, I would include some of these, Bold Ruler, Native Dancer, Buckpasser, Damascus, Kelso, Citation, Secretariat and Spectacular Bid to name a few and those are only a few...

ateamstupid · #**146** 08-06-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Personally I think Barbaro would have had more heart than Bernardini at the wire of the BCC vs. Invasor.

And you say this based on what, his life and death win over Sharp Humor?

RollerDoc · #**147** 08-06-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

And you say this based on what, his life and death win over Sharp Humor?

Umm Yes, are you serious? You didn't think the 2006 Kentucky Derby was a loaded field of talented three year olds. Barbaro won by seven lengths blowing out notables like Bluegrass Cat, Lawyer Ron, Brother Derek, Sweetnorthernsaint, Jazil, and Steppenwolfer......not to mention a nifty move he put on A.P. Warrior early in the race.

SniperSB23 · #**148** 08-06-2008, 01:45 PM

This thread just keeps getting more amusing. AP Warrior!

RollerDoc · #**149** 08-06-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

This thread just keeps getting more amusing. AP Warrior!

All I'm saying is Barbaro saw to it that A.P Warrior was one less to compete against early on. Why do you discount the other mentions. I didn't include A.P Warrior in the list of others. Only as a "not to mention."

I'm glad I can amuse you.

ateamstupid · #**150** 08-06-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Umm Yes, are you serious? You didn't think the 2006 Kentucky Derby was a loaded field of talented three year olds. Barbaro won by seven lengths blowing out notables like Bluegrass Cat, Lawyer Ron, Brother Derek, Sweetnorthernsaint, Jazil, and Steppenwolfer......not to mention a nifty move he put on A.P. Warrior early in the race.

LOL, you're either a troll or clueless. Either way, I'm done with this.

skippy3481 · #**151** 08-06-2008, 02:00 PM

First time ive ever heard of a horse putting a nifty move on another horse.... well done sir...

RollerDoc · #**152** 08-06-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

LOL, you're either a troll or clueless. Either way, I'm done with this.

Aren't you kind.

ateamstupid · #**153** 08-06-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Aren't you kind.

Sorry. I tried to be nice for a while, but you continue to argue about greatness even after you admitted that you're unqualified to do so. Carry on, I'm just saying I'm done arguing with you.

RollerDoc · #**154** 08-06-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Sorry. I tried to be nice for a while, but you continue to argue about greatness even after you admitted that you're unqualified to do so. Carry on, I'm just saying I'm done arguing with you.

I hate to sound like Bill Clinton "not having sex with that woman." I did use the word great for Afleet Alex. I said that because I thought the category of "super horse" supercedes great. So to me that means a second tier amongst the all time best. What is wrong with calling him great or at least having an opinion of what i believe to be great?

Gander · #**155** 08-06-2008, 02:42 PM

Am I the only one who thought Bernardini ran very well in defeat to Invasor?
I mean if you needed validation to how good Invasor was, you got it the following year, no? Its not like Bernardini got beat 5 lengths and he got beat by a horse like Da Tara. It was close and I think JJ may have moved a tad early on Bernardini. Doubt it cost him first, but you never know.

ArlJim78 · #**156** 08-06-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Am I the only one who thought Bernardini ran very well in defeat to Invasor?
I mean if you needed validation to how good Invasor was, you got it the following year, no? Its not like Bernardini got beat 5 lengths and he got beat by a horse like Da Tara. It was close and I think JJ may have moved a tad early on Bernardini. Doubt it cost him first, but you never know.

you're not the only one. he was good, much better than Big Brown imo.

ateamstupid · #**157** 08-06-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Am I the only one who thought Bernardini ran very well in defeat to Invasor?
I mean if you needed validation to how good Invasor was, you got it the following year, no? Its not like Bernardini got beat 5 lengths and he got beat by a horse like Da Tara. It was close and I think JJ may have moved a tad early on Bernardini. Doubt it cost him first, but you never know.

Don't try to tell that to all of the parrots around here who thought Bernardini 'buckled' for whatever reason.

RollerDoc · #**158** 08-06-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You are free to have whatever opinion you like. However, when you decide to discuss things that you clearly have no idea about, expect some flack. Here's a thought, horse racing has been around long before 2005. So, maybe do a tiny bit of research, have some perspective and then maybe your thoughts might be better understood.

I'm ok with the flack. There is no evidence of me discussing things "I have no idea about." However, my record shows that I am not afraid to ask questions that "I have no idea about."

Oh and I know horse racing was around before 2005. Wasn't Birdstone a great horse in 2004?

RollerDoc · #**159** 08-06-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Am I the only one who thought Bernardini ran very well in defeat to Invasor?
I mean if you needed validation to how good Invasor was, you got it the following year, no? Its not like Bernardini got beat 5 lengths and he got beat by a horse like Da Tara. It was close and I think JJ may have moved a tad early on Bernardini. Doubt it cost him first, but you never know.

He did run very well. He just didn't run as well as he did in the Preakness.

Dunbar · #**160** 08-06-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

that 3 race run was impressive, I have said that over and over. what I will ask you and anyone else on the Big Brown bandwagon is, based on those 3 impressive races, would you say Big Brown is better than Curlin or that Big Brown is a great horse by historical standards. those are the types of claims being made and the ones I take exception to, not that he hasn't by far put in the most impressive races of any 3yo this year. Like I said previously I don't know how a knowledgeable person answers yes to either of those questions.

No, and no. Not even a close call, IMO. And further, it is unlikely that either Big Brown or Curlin will do enough before retiring to be "great" in the sense that Cannon Shell is talking about. There's very little chance of seeing another horse like the true greats unless it's a gelding.

Roller Doc, I suggest you spend some time at YouTube and search for Dr. Fager races. (after reading at least the Wikipedia entry.)

--Dunbar