NBA Playoffs - Page 7

ateamstupid · #**121** 05-13-2009, 04:57 PM

Good article from Hollinger with a reality check for Howard. Dude has obviously bought his own hype, calling himself a "dominant" offensive player. The worst part is most people are agreeing with Howard. Have they watched him play?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...PERDiem-090513

King Glorious · #**122** 05-13-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Good article from Hollinger with a reality check for Howard. Dude has obviously bought his own hype, calling himself a "dominant" offensive player. The worst part is most people are agreeing with Howard. Have they watched him play?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...PERDiem-090513

On that team, he is. It's not a matter of him being as dominant player as anyone else in the league but on that team, he is the team's best offensive weapon. Their offense has to work inside out. Rashard Lewis cannot create a shot for himself. Never has been able to. Turkoglu and Alston are best able to operate when the ball comes back out to them after going inside. When they take Howard out of their offense, they make it hard on themselves. Howard doesn't have to score all the time but has to at least get the ball and draw the double and kick it out to get the guys better shots. Also, he draws a lot of fouls and gets guys in foul trouble and gets his team in the penalty earlier. I don't think he's a dominant offensive player but he's their dominant inside player and he's got to get the ball.

#**123** 05-13-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

On that team, he is. It's not a matter of him being as dominant player as anyone else in the league but on that team, he is the team's best offensive weapon. Their offense has to work inside out. Rashard Lewis cannot create a shot for himself. Never has been able to. Turkoglu and Alston are best able to operate when the ball comes back out to them after going inside. When they take Howard out of their offense, they make it hard on themselves. Howard doesn't have to score all the time but has to at least get the ball and draw the double and kick it out to get the guys better shots. Also, he draws a lot of fouls and gets guys in foul trouble and gets his team in the penalty earlier. I don't think he's a dominant offensive player but he's their dominant inside player and he's got to get the ball.

Its pretty clear now they need J. Nelson's ability
to get into the lane and create opportunities. When
the Celtics really started playing D, Orlando folded.

Celtics are a very tough minded team compared to
Orlando. Even with Rajon Rondo, who cant hit a simple
jump shot to save his life. And for every good pass he
makes he follows it up with a bone head pass. Good thing
he is such a good athlete.

ateamstupid · #**124** 05-13-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

On that team, he is. It's not a matter of him being as dominant player as anyone else in the league but on that team, he is the team's best offensive weapon. Their offense has to work inside out. Rashard Lewis cannot create a shot for himself. Never has been able to. Turkoglu and Alston are best able to operate when the ball comes back out to them after going inside. When they take Howard out of their offense, they make it hard on themselves. Howard doesn't have to score all the time but has to at least get the ball and draw the double and kick it out to get the guys better shots. Also, he draws a lot of fouls and gets guys in foul trouble and gets his team in the penalty earlier. I don't think he's a dominant offensive player but he's their dominant inside player and he's got to get the ball.

Maybe he's effective in the post against smaller teams, but against the Celtics, he can't score one-on-one against Perkins, and he's struggled against Big Baby as well. The Celtics also are not going to double him in the post, nor should they, so really, what the hell is he talking about? Maybe during the regular season against smaller post players he's imposing, but in this series he's been punked in the post over and over. So for him to blame an epic team choke on him not getting the ball in the post is total nonsense.

Also, you're wrong about Turkoglu and Lewis. They both can score off the dribble. It's not their calling cards, but they can do it, and they've both been way more successful off the dribble in this series than Howard's been in the post.

King Glorious · #**125** 05-13-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Maybe he's effective in the post against smaller teams, but against the Celtics, he can't score one-on-one against Perkins, and he's struggled against Big Baby as well. The Celtics also are not going to double him in the post, nor should they, so really, what the hell is he talking about? Maybe during the regular season against smaller post players he's imposing, but in this series he's been punked in the post over and over. So for him to blame an epic team choke on him not getting the ball in the post is total nonsense.

Also, you're wrong about Turkoglu and Lewis. They both can score off the dribble. It's not their calling cards, but they can do it, and they've both been way more successful off the dribble in this series than Howard's been in the post.

I don't think Lewis has created off the dribble in his entire life. Every analyst out there has said the same thing. The Orlando offense works best when it goes inside first and that creates the open spaces for the shooters. That's basketball 101. Even when your dominant player is a wing player like Cleveland or LA, it still opens up the floor to have an inside threat. Cleveland's offense is better when Ilgauskas is on the court. The Lakers offense is better when Bynum is doing his thing inside. When teams don't have to respect the inside game, they get up on the shooters and make it that much harder for them. Howard doesn't have to get the ball to get 20 shots a game but when the don't even go inside to him to even be a threat to score, they are going to struggle big time.

Cannon Shell · #**126** 05-13-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Picking up Marbury hasn't hurt the Celtics at all this year. It won them a playoff game last night. Danny Ainge has done one hell of a job up there. Nobody thought Rondo was much of anything. Marbury was seen as a cancer and people said picking him up would hurt the chemistry. KG was given all the credit last year but the guys are showing that is was much more than KG. Even with Powe being out and with Posey gone from last year, these guys are playing some good ball. Davis was a solid draft choice. Powe was another solid pickup. Perkins is really underrated down there. Getting House was a steal. Ainge has done a hell of a job.

They were life and death with an erratic Bulls team and haven't won games in this series as much as another erratic Orlando team has lost them. They are winning but hardly playing good ball. With KG they beat the bulls in 5 and probably have already closed this one out too. Not to mention actually have a chance against Cleveland. They will be lucky to win a game the next round.

ateamstupid · #**127** 05-13-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think Lewis has created off the dribble in his entire life. Every analyst out there has said the same thing. The Orlando offense works best when it goes inside first and that creates the open spaces for the shooters. That's basketball 101. Even when your dominant player is a wing player like Cleveland or LA, it still opens up the floor to have an inside threat. Cleveland's offense is better when Ilgauskas is on the court. The Lakers offense is better when Bynum is doing his thing inside. When teams don't have to respect the inside game, they get up on the shooters and make it that much harder for them. Howard doesn't have to get the ball to get 20 shots a game but when the don't even go inside to him to even be a threat to score, they are going to struggle big time.

Lewis scored off the dribble like five times in the first half of last night's game alone, so you don't know what you're saying. And the "feed the post and create space" strategy only works if you have a big that can't be shut down one-on-one. Howard can't do a damn thing against Perkins one-one-one, so the Celtics can stay glued to the shooters.

Stop listening to what "analysts" say about the Magic and actually watch them. Howard has been a non-factor on offense this series, even when he's getting touches. Freaking Gortat has done a better job in the post.

Cannon Shell · #**128** 05-13-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Good article from Hollinger with a reality check for Howard. Dude has obviously bought his own hype, calling himself a "dominant" offensive player. The worst part is most people are agreeing with Howard. Have they watched him play?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...PERDiem-090513

He still has a limited offensive game. His footwork isnt great and his being a superior athlete is what makes him valuable, not his basketball ability. Calling out your coach after that choke job shows he isnt much of a leader either. If you want the ball superman get a freaking offensive rebound.

Cannon Shell · #**129** 05-13-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

On that team, he is. It's not a matter of him being as dominant player as anyone else in the league but on that team, he is the team's best offensive weapon. Their offense has to work inside out. Rashard Lewis cannot create a shot for himself. Never has been able to. Turkoglu and Alston are best able to operate when the ball comes back out to them after going inside. When they take Howard out of their offense, they make it hard on themselves. Howard doesn't have to score all the time but has to at least get the ball and draw the double and kick it out to get the guys better shots. Also, he draws a lot of fouls and gets guys in foul trouble and gets his team in the penalty earlier. I don't think he's a dominant offensive player but he's their dominant inside player and he's got to get the ball.

Boston never doubles Howard (they dont have to) and he is a bad free throw shooter. Not exactly the guy you want on the line at the end of the game.

Cannon Shell · #**130** 05-13-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think Lewis has created off the dribble in his entire life. Every analyst out there has said the same thing. The Orlando offense works best when it goes inside first and that creates the open spaces for the shooters. That's basketball 101. Even when your dominant player is a wing player like Cleveland or LA, it still opens up the floor to have an inside threat. Cleveland's offense is better when Ilgauskas is on the court. The Lakers offense is better when Bynum is doing his thing inside. When teams don't have to respect the inside game, they get up on the shooters and make it that much harder for them. Howard doesn't have to get the ball to get 20 shots a game but when the don't even go inside to him to even be a threat to score, they are going to struggle big time.

Ilgauskus scores at least half of his points on jumpshots, not inside. Howard isnt a very good passer out of the post. The guys game on the offensive end is strictly power and rebounds. The real story shouldnt be if he is correct in his complaint or not. It is him acting selfish by going public instead of airing his gripes in private. There is a reason that during crunch time in the Olympics that Chris Bosh was on the floor and not Howard.

#**131** 05-13-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Lewis scored off the dribble like five times in the first half of last night's game alone, so you don't know what you're saying. And the "feed the post and create space" strategy only works if you have a big that can't be shut down one-on-one. Howard can't do a damn thing against Perkins one-one-one, so the Celtics can stay glued to the shooters.

Stop listening to what "analysts" say about the Magic and actually watch them. Howard has been a non-factor on offense this series, even when he's getting touches. Freaking Gortat has done a better job in the post.

Lewis nor Turkeyglue have scored consistently off the dribble
when it really counts. The Celtics rarely double them off the dribble
outside. They want them to drive into traffic. They dont want wide
open jumpers (which apparently went south also when they were tired).

On the other hand you have Orlando double teaming Pierce and Allen
outside just to get the ball out of their hands. Aint happening the
other way around.

Agree with Howard. I think he is relatively weak lower body. He is easy to move on or tie up on the offensive boards. He is not getting easy standing putbacks. Howard is feeling body and he does not like it. Defensively he is a huge asset. Just stupid.

All of the above is of course... imo.

ateamstupid · #**132** 05-13-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

Lewis nor Turkeyglue have scored consistently off the dribble
when it really counts. The Celtics rarely double them off the dribble
outside. They want them to drive into traffic. They dont want wide
open jumpers (which apparently went south also when they were tired).

On the other hand you have Orlando double teaming Pierce and Allen
outside just to get the ball out of their hands. Aint happening the
other way around.

Agree with Howard. I think he is relatively weak lower body. He is easy to move on or tie up on the offensive boards. He is not getting easy standing putbacks. Howard is feeling body and he does not like it. Defensively he is a huge asset. Just stupid.

All of the above is of course... imo.

We agree. I know they don't consistently score off the dribble, but they're not totally incapable, and they've been more successful off the dribble this series than Howard has been in the post. It's not even close.

King Glorious · #**133** 05-13-2009, 09:37 PM

What you aren't getting is that the ONLY reason they can get anything is because of Howard's presence in the middle. It's the same thing that happened with the Lakers and Miami. When Shaq was with LA, everybody shot higher percentages and the team was among the league leaders in fg percentage. Miami was nowhere near the top. Once they traded Shaq to Miami, it totally switched around. The presence of an inside threat is going to open up the floor for the outside guys. It's been that way since the beginning of the game. Howard doesn't have to be a guy that can score 30 a night. He has to be a guy that the defense has to respect that his team can go to him inside and he can consistently get you 20 a night and on given nights go for 30+. When you don't even go inside to him and the defense has to pay no attention to him, then you get what you got last night. Guys running around throwing up airballs and trying to create off the dribble too much. Howard doesn't have to score but he is a threat to score and has to be respected when he gets the ball. By not giving him the ball at all, you are only hurting yourself.

#**134** 05-13-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What you aren't getting is that the ONLY reason they can get anything is because of Howard's presence in the middle. It's the same thing that happened with the Lakers and Miami. When Shaq was with LA, everybody shot higher percentages and the team was among the league leaders in fg percentage. Miami was nowhere near the top. Once they traded Shaq to Miami, it totally switched around. The presence of an inside threat is going to open up the floor for the outside guys. It's been that way since the beginning of the game. Howard doesn't have to be a guy that can score 30 a night. He has to be a guy that the defense has to respect that his team can go to him inside and he can consistently get you 20 a night and on given nights go for 30+. When you don't even go inside to him and the defense has to pay no attention to him, then you get what you got last night. Guys running around throwing up airballs and trying to create off the dribble too much. Howard doesn't have to score but he is a threat to score and has to be respected when he gets the ball. By not giving him the ball at all, you are only hurting yourself.

I think Howard has done a poor
job of being physical and getting seals for easy
passes. He is standing straight up asking for the ball.
He is not working very hard to receive the
ball in good position, which for him is very close to the
basket.

He needs to get his damn butt into someones legs
elbow out and ask for the ball at the right time. Like after
the ball has moved around away from him and is on
its way back. He is totally relying on his athletic ability
and forgetting any sort of technique. Taking the lazy
route.

ateamstupid · #**135** 05-13-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Howard doesn't have to score but he is a threat to score and has to be respected when he gets the ball. By not giving him the ball at all, you are only hurting yourself.

Holy God. You clearly haven't been watching this series. The guy can't score outside of three feet, and he's not strong enough to back down Perkins or even Davis. He's been completely exposed in this series, and comparing him to Shaq in his prime is so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin. If he can't score one-on-one and the Celtics are never going to double him, throwing the ball to him in the post every possession is a hindrance, not a necessity.