Big Brown has Quarter Crack - Page 6

SCUDSBROTHER · #**101** 05-25-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Mineshaft also had bad feet, btw.

Yeah, but you can name horses stuff like:

Mein SHAFT

JOHN SHAFT

This Cat SHAFT

SHAFT Can Yadigit

POWER SHAFT

Danzig · #**102** 05-25-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yeah, but you can name horses stuff like:

Mein SHAFT

JOHN SHAFT

This Cat SHAFT

SHAFT Can Yadigit

POWER SHAFT

if a filly, how about shesgotthegoldmine

2Hot4TV · #**103** 05-25-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Casino Drive has already been the beneficiary of weak competition.

And carrying lite weight.

SCUDSBROTHER · #**104** 05-25-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

if a filly, how about shesgotthegoldmine

I better refrain ( on giving out the filly names...LOL.)

2Hot4TV · #**105** 05-25-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

What exactly is a quarter crack?

http://www.andalusians-for-you.com/quarter-crack.html

Danzig · #**106** 05-25-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Missing some training probably isn't that big of a deal for this horse at this point though, is it?

'if everything is good, the colt will on the track for full training by Thursday.' he will go a week without going to the track. i would think that would be an issue.

Danzig · #**107** 05-25-2008, 01:13 PM

'Dutrow said he noticed a small spot on the colt's foot Friday afternoon and notified hoof lameness specialist Ian McKinlay, who treated it. By Saturday, it had turned into a slight quarter crack, five-eighths of an inch long. McKinlay applied iodine solution and said he’s confident it is very minor. '

chuck, the guy treats it and then it cracks...calling for more treatment. guy says it's minor.
what do you think?

Cannon Shell · #**108** 05-25-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

'Dutrow said he noticed a small spot on the colt's foot Friday afternoon and notified hoof lameness specialist Ian McKinlay, who treated it. By Saturday, it had turned into a slight quarter crack, five-eighths of an inch long. McKinlay applied iodine solution and said he’s confident it is very minor. '

chuck, the guy treats it and then it cracks...calling for more treatment. guy says it's minor.
what do you think?

You have to take it at face value I guess. Iodine is used to dry it out. The real problem is you rarely know what is underneath till it comes out. Ian is really good. There is still plenty of time to mess with it. It may well be no issue in 2 weeks.

Danzig · #**109** 05-25-2008, 01:53 PM

so you don't think missing a week of training will hurt? best case would be no further spreading, no underlying issue and he's back on track on thursday, with a work next tuesday. is that enough? will he be ready for 12f, taking everything into consideration?

ateamstupid · #**110** 05-25-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't understand why anyone thinks he is so valuable a prospect. he's by boundary for crying out loud. quick, name 5 good boundaries, without looking up his progeny records...besides big brown of course. i can think of ONE, pomeroy.

also, it's a rotten crop, and he just happens to be a bit faster than the other slow horses.
eight belles was thought by many to not be a derby horse, wouldn't be able to get 10f, and she ran closer to big brown than any of his other competition ever had.

i can't believe they're going nuts over this horse, or that he's worth 100k.

I agree 100%. But the problem is the breeding business appears to have serious short-term memory. Four years down the road, if Big Brown is a flop at stud (which he almost certainly will be), the douchebag breeders will be so occupied with clamoring for the latest Derby winner, they'll forget all about how much they inflated Big Brown's prospects. Plus, as long as people keep paying exorbitant amounts for yearlings and two-year-olds, the breeders will be heartened to keep overvaluing horses.

Cannon Shell · #**111** 05-25-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I agree 100%. But the problem is the breeding business appears to have serious short-term memory. Four years down the road, if Big Brown is a flop at stud (which he almost certainly will be), the douchebag breeders will be so occupied with clamoring for the latest Derby winner, they'll forget all about how much they inflated Big Brown's prospects. Plus, as long as people keep paying exorbitant amounts for yearlings and two-year-olds, the breeders will be heartened to keep overvaluing horses.

What people seem to forget is that racetrack success doesnt always translate into stallion success. It is one of the things that the 'medication is ruining the breed' types seem to forget. Just look at the 70's. Secretariat, Affirmed, and Spectacular Bid who all rank in the top 20 all time (maybe better) all were disappointments at stud as were Alysheba, Easy Goer (though he didnt get much of a chance), Spend a Buck and Devils Bag in the 80's and Skip Away and Formal Gold among others in the 90's. None ever sired a horse close to themselves. Medication had nothing to do with it either. Most stallions are failures, plain and simple. The real problems started when people started to pay top dollar to breed to unproven stallions versus proven ones. By paying big bucks for a few years before we know what they got, you are allowing the breeders to pay huge money and escape with their hides. Surely Three Chimneys thinks that they will have enough support at a high level to pay the money they did for BB but I am skeptical of what people will feel like in a year from now.

Danzig · #**112** 05-25-2008, 03:41 PM

a lot of people are going after first year stallions, looking to get that instant bang for their buck. get in, get out, make some money before the stallion proves to be in the 90% of stallions who won't make it, rather than in the 10% that do. a lot of established sires are having a hard time getting a full book. makes no sense, but everyone is looking for a show horse, not a race horse.

i'm thinking big brown will turn out like real quiet or monarchos.

big brown is case clays first big buy since taking over as president of three chimneys. i think ieah got the better end of this deal by a mile.

Kasept · #**113** 05-25-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

big brown is case clays first big buy since taking over as president of three chimneys. i think ieah got the better end of this deal by a mile.

IEAH didn't actually get all that much money... The deal "places his value at $50 million".. which means Three Chimneys may have paid just $10 million for 20%.

justindew · #**114** 05-25-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

IEAH didn't actually get all that much money... The deal "places his value at $50 million".. which means Three Chimneys may have paid just $10 million for 20%.

....or $60 million for Big Brown and an overhyped IEAH runner to be named later......

Danzig · #**115** 05-25-2008, 04:19 PM

now, i know they insured the horse for 50mill.
no details were given on the stud deal, other than clay saying it's for breeding rights only. so are they basing the stud deal on the amount of insurance purchased?
how does that work when they say they've only purchased the breeding rights, rather than just an outright purchase of the horse?

Pedigree Ann · #**116** 05-25-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What people seem to forget is that racetrack success doesnt always translate into stallion success. It is one of the things that the 'medication is ruining the breed' types seem to forget. Just look at the 70's. Secretariat, Affirmed, and Spectacular Bid who all rank in the top 20 all time (maybe better) all were disappointments at stud .

I'm tired of hearing this. Secretariat was a darn good stallion; he sired 1) a Horse of the Year (Lady's Secret) 2) a Preakness/Belmont winner (Risen Star) 3) a Travers/Hopeful/Vosburg winner (General Assembly), 4) a Melbourne Cup winner (Kingston Rule), plus a good number of graded/group winners. As this recital indicates, Big Red was a stamina sire, however during his early stud career Claibourne and partners mated him as though he were a typical Bold Ruler son, with stamina mares. Only after his first 2yos got to the track did they realize their mistake and start to give him mares with a bit more speed (like Great Lady M.).

Affirmed was never expected to excell at stud by the Blood Grass elite breeders; he was by Exclusive Native, who was okay but not top drawer, while the damside was distinctly blue-collar. He was never given the top level mares, yet he still sired 1) a multiple US champion (Flawlessly), 2) a Canadian Triple Crown winner (Peteski), 3) classic winners (Trusted Partner, Bint Pasha), and numerous group/graded winners, including everyone's favorite, The Tin Dude. He, too, tended to produce horses who didn't excell at 2 on dirt tracks - most were better at 3 or older and on turf. That was a truly strange breeding result - a horse who never ran on turf and whose parents and grandparents never ran on turf should become an excellent sire of turf horses. Who can figure that one out?

The Indomitable DrugS · #**117** 05-25-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Just look at the 70's. Secretariat, Affirmed, and Spectacular Bid who all rank in the top 20 all time (maybe better) all were disappointments at stud as were Alysheba, Easy Goer (though he didnt get much of a chance), Spend a Buck and Devils Bag in the 80's and Skip Away and Formal Gold among others in the 90's.

None of those nine great horses where really brilliant sprinter/miler types with sharp early speed except for perhaps Spend A Buck and Devil's Bag.

Spend A Buck has managed to sire four different multiple Grade 1 winning millionaires .. all of which from South American dams. They being Pico Central, Einstein, Antespend, and Hard Buck.

While Devils Bag wasn' a bad sire either - he was obviously a big disappointment - but his much lesser 8-year younger full brother Saint Ballado, who only sold for five figures as a yearling, has been a smashing success at stud.

Brilliant speed seems to be clearly the #1 stallion making quality.

Kasept · #**118** 05-25-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

so are they basing the stud deal on the amount of insurance purchased?

The deal "places his value at $50 million".. which means Three Chimneys [may have] paid just $10 million for 20%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

how does that work when they say they've only purchased the breeding rights, rather than just an outright purchase of the horse?

They paid for a percentage of the horse to secure the rights to stand him at their farm after his racing career.

The Indomitable DrugS · #**119** 05-25-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

I'm tired of hearing this. Secretariat was a darn good stallion;

If you bred his book of mares to Cozar - he would be a very accomplished stallion.

Pedigree Ann · #**120** 05-25-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If you bred his book of mares to Cozar - he would be a very accomplished stallion.

Not certain what this means, but the 'elite' mares he received were, many of them, the wrong mares for this particular stallion. Just as Winning Colors was sent to stallions who made the most economic sense rather than to the stallions that would suit her best (and may have been totally non-commercial). An example - After Cee's Song produced 4 SWs including a Horse of the Year with Cee's Tizzy, proving this is a dynamite cross, a genetic goldmine, her owners' heirs sent her to Storm Cat repreatedly and got 2 minor winners, one SP, and one unraced. By most measures Storm Cat is a better stallion than Cee's Tizzy, BUT not for this particular mare.