Travers Buzz: Quality Road a yes..

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by tector

Wait, you didn't hear anybody question going 1.25 off a 6.5 prep off a long layoff? What planet have you been on?

If QR is done for this year (and he very well may not be), will it be fair to ask the question then?

This was a rush job. Pletcher has essentially conceded that. If the horse is out because of it, presumably even you will concede it was not the wisest course. I am just saying it now.

i questioned it in every thread. its just horseplayer common sense. yet, 3 out of 4 public handicappers were picking QR. if you compared form in the pp's how do you come up with 6-5 on this horse? other than the hype. summer bird, the derby, win in the belmont, second in the haskell. hes a birdstone so a mile and a eighth is not even his best distance. now hes going a mile and a quarter at the travers his father just won! meanwhile QR won the amsterdam but had not raced in months now hes going to go to the travers, a distance hes NEVER been. personally , i thought anyone taking those odds with those facts was pushing it just a little bit. there was even one thread that said mine that bird would take dumb money and QR would be a good price. QR was a BAD price and could not even beat hold me back!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by tector

I would not be surprised if you don't see QR again this year, or even ever (on a race track, that is).

What was asked of this very talented horse was ridiculous. His connections should be ashamed of themselves. If anyone at ESPN had some balls, and could quit whining for a minute about how RA did not come to one of the few horse races they bother to show nowadays, they might have been a little more pointed in addressing the issue.

It is getting unbearable to watch horse racing coverage on TV nowadays. Most of the TVGers are a joke, ESPN is worse and HRTV...zzzzzz (although that is beginning to look good in comparison).

i dvr'd the coverage, and fast forwarded thru much of it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah .. it was certainly a nice day for the company line of her form.

Not only did the horse she just destroyed in the Haskell win the Travers - but an ice cold on the board Sara Louise got the job done.

Even though Sara Louise beat RA at a mile ... it was around one-turn .. RA has been flawless around two turns.

i think rachel had some traffic trouble that day as well-i read something to that effect.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Tector-

No disrespect but it didnt seem like too many people had a problem with QR's appearance in this race before it was run. You posted twice to this thread before the race was run and didnt once question the connections choice of putting QR in the travers. Two industry types (their opinions i greatly respect) on this thread defended the move after it was brought up. In all the threads leading up to the race there were only about 4 people that questioned the move at all.

Are you criticizing the connections now because of something you saw in Quality Road Pre race? Meaning, did the horse obviously not look well and in your opinion should have been scratched?

i sounded cautionary notes a few times-but they largely went ignored. people thought he was talented enough to overcome everything in his path-obviously not the case at all. there were more questions then most wanted to ask. pletcher sounded hesitant, but i'd imagine it wasn't his idea to run the horse. they'd have been better served waiting a week and running in the woodward. but i don't know that even a week would have been enough.

the issue here is more of people lacking respect for the belmont winner. summer bird has shown steady progression since breaking his maiden-just five months ago. the fact he lost to rachel is no black spot on his resume.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

All I know is whether they thought it was the safer spot or not, it wasn't. So I wouldn't have given her more credit for being in the Classic than for being in the Distaff. The only one that's not comprehending is you. You are set on the belief that because she's running in the open race, that's the toughest challenge and you can't accept that, even with numerous examples of how restricted races can be tougher, it's not always the case. I believe that the argument can be made that by going in the Woodward instead of the Travers, they are chosing the LESS aggresive approach.

seeing how the race unfolded, rachel yesterday would have been another been there, done that. quality road was overhyped considering, and she's already defeated summer bird by many lengths. she's climbed the three year old mountain, now it's time for the next challenge- open company. and you might want to read this: http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...o-lightly.aspx before thinking she's taking the easy route.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by tector

.
As an aside, I don't know where this NYRA propaganda about the Travers being a "must" comes from. Secretariat didn't run in the Travers--he went to the Whitney. His stablemate, Riva Ridge, blew it off as well. I'm sure if looked I could find plenty more examples. .

Secretariat was using the Whitney as his prep for the Travers; it was run 4 days before the relatively minor Jim Dandy that year (4 August vs. 8 August). The Travers was run on 18 August so the plan would have given him two full weeks between races instead of 10 days. But he lost the Whitney and his connections decided he needed some time off before the fall campaign, leaving the Travers to be won by the immortal Annihilate 'Em.

I'm not sure that Riva Ridge ran at all in the late summer/early fall.

The Travers was a classic race long before the Preakness was. Now that the NYRA has emasculated its races for older horses (Woodward down to 9f, the Saratoga BC Cup eliminated, JCGC cut 6f, heck the Whitney even used to be 10f), the Travers is one of the few G1 races left for real racehorses.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

the Travers is one of the few G1 races left for real racehorses.

So the Woodward is going to have fake race horses?

[Travis Stone]

The over-hyped on Quality Road comes from his odds, which were probably a bit low. Betting against him was an easy 1-2-3 given the setup and scenario though, so the negative reactions are kinda lame in my opinion.

He ran really well and discounting him just because he couldn't win the 10 furlong Travers off a 6 1/2 furlong prep which was his first race since March seems shortsighted. Not to mention he hasn't gone two turns since March either.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i sounded cautionary notes a few times-but they largely went ignored. people thought he was talented enough to overcome everything in his path-obviously not the case at all. there were more questions then most wanted to ask. pletcher sounded hesitant, but i'd imagine it wasn't his idea to run the horse. they'd have been better served waiting a week and running in the woodward. but i don't know that even a week would have been enough.

the issue here is more of people lacking respect for the belmont winner. summer bird has shown steady progression since breaking his maiden-just five months ago. the fact he lost to rachel is no black spot on his resume.

Zig,

Im sure I remember you saying that as did others. My point is, I think its pretty lame for Tector to come back on this thread bashing the connections AFTER QR loses the race after not saying anything about it before the race. If someone saw that QR looked bad in the paddock or warming up and were criticizing Evans/Pletcher for not scratching, thats different.

[tector]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Read the thread Tector. I did question it...before the race. You didnt say a single word about it. As a matter of fact, you hypothesized about him WINNING.

So if Quality Road wins, you wouldnt have said anything. But because he loses, his connections should be tarred and feathered. NICE.

You are full of crap and deliberately distorting posts. All I said is that the people whining about RA not facing QR should shut the hell up because, IF he won, they would likely get another chance to face each other down the road (this was before the enhancement of Beldame). And I had already suggested QR to the Woodward elsewhere.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Secretariat was using the Whitney as his prep for the Travers; it was run 4 days before the relatively minor Jim Dandy that year (4 August vs. 8 August). The Travers was run on 18 August so the plan would have given him two full weeks between races instead of 10 days. But he lost the Whitney and his connections decided he needed some time off before the fall campaign, leaving the Travers to be won by the immortal Annihilate 'Em.

I'm not sure that Riva Ridge ran at all in the late summer/early fall.

The Travers was a classic race long before the Preakness was. Now that the NYRA has emasculated its races for older horses (Woodward down to 9f, the Saratoga BC Cup eliminated, JCGC cut 6f, heck the Whitney even used to be 10f), the Travers is one of the few G1 races left for real racehorses.

The Breeder Cup made most G1 races after July preps.. NYRA had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately the demise of G1 racing after July to BC Preps is a by-product of Championship day where champions are sometimes wrongfully crowned. I love the Breeders Cup and think it's wonderful but it certainly F'd up the horse racing environment.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by tector

You are full of crap and deliberately distorting posts. All I said is that the people whining about RA not facing QR should shut the hell up because, IF he won, they would likely get another chance to face each other down the road (this was before the enhancement of Beldame). And I had already suggested QR to the Woodward elsewhere.

Assuming QR took care of business in the Travers, and RA did so in the Woodward, they could always meet in the JCGC

Did you not post this on page 1 of this thread? Regardless of context, it is what you said. Is this not hypothesizing a win by QR?

Now, i would love for you to post your criticism of the move BEFORE the race. Just one post.

See, its easy to play armchair trainer AFTER the race is run. Right or wrong, I state my opinion before the race and if im wrong so be it. Its easy to criticize a mistake AFTER it is made. I dont want to go back and forth but i just think its pretty lame thats all.

[tector]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Secretariat was using the Whitney as his prep for the Travers; it was run 4 days before the relatively minor Jim Dandy that year (4 August vs. 8 August). The Travers was run on 18 August so the plan would have given him two full weeks between races instead of 10 days. But he lost the Whitney and his connections decided he needed some time off before the fall campaign, leaving the Travers to be won by the immortal Annihilate 'Em.

I'm not sure that Riva Ridge ran at all in the late summer/early fall.

The Travers was a classic race long before the Preakness was. Now that the NYRA has emasculated its races for older horses (Woodward down to 9f, the Saratoga BC Cup eliminated, JCGC cut 6f, heck the Whitney even used to be 10f), the Travers is one of the few G1 races left for real racehorses.

Riva Ridge ran once in August and twice in September, which is exactly what Secretariat did. In neither case did their connections take a "hell or high water" approach to the Travers. Obviously it is great, historical race. But it is not viewed as essential to any 3YO except by NYRA and now the shills at ESPN. For example, neither Spectacular Bid, Unbridled or Spend A Buck ran in it, and all ran elsewhere in the August of their 3YO years. And, of course, all kinds of California horses have skipped it. And I have never before seen some kind of demand that a filly has to run in it. This is all horsecrap of recent vintage (i.e. this year) because NYRA and ESPN wanted RA there, like either of them is owed anything.

[tector]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Assuming QR took care of business in the Travers, and RA did so in the Woodward, they could always meet in the JCGC

Did you not post this on page 1 of this thread? Regardless of context, it is what you said. Is this not hypothesizing a win by QR?

Now, i would love for you to post your criticism of the move BEFORE the race. Just one post.

See, its easy to play armchair trainer AFTER the race is run. Right or wrong, I state my opinion before the race and if im wrong so be it. Its easy to criticize a mistake AFTER it is made. I dont want to go back and forth but i just think its pretty lame thats all.

Regardless of context...great. Just make up your own context then. Whatever works.

[CSC]

Personally I'd love to see Summer Bird and RA meet in the JCGC later this fall, I think the majority of the public actually believe the result in the Haskell is a true indication that RA is that much better than SB, I know if it were up to Tim Ice he would love a rematch also, if QR or MTB want to be there all the better. I'm dying to find out just how good RA is when she has to face more than 2 opponents dueling themselves into the track as in the Mother Goose at Belmont or having SB waste himself engaging Munnings in the Haskel...Taking gender out of the equation RA is very good racehorse period, but isn't she also hyped to some degree being that she is a filly, her only true tough race when conditions were not ideal for her was the Preakness...and we know how close she came to being beaten there.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The over-hyped on Quality Road comes from his odds, which were probably a bit low. Betting against him was an easy 1-2-3 given the setup and scenario though, so the negative reactions are kinda lame in my opinion.

He ran really well and discounting him just because he couldn't win the 10 furlong Travers off a 6 1/2 furlong prep which was his first race since March seems shortsighted. Not to mention he hasn't gone two turns since March either.

Quality Road may very well still be the best 3 year old colt..Yesterdays race did nothing to suggest that he won't be the colt that many preceive him to be. I think Cannon Shell said it best when he suggested that it was the owners decision to run in the Travers not Pletchers. I don't blame the owner, you certainly see his name on millions of dollars of stock year after year and winning the Travers is certainly what any owner dreams about. I do feel that in general more good is done for the game with the LaPenta/Zito approach then the super conservative approach cannon Shell was alluding too. You constantly see Zito/LaPenta throwing there hat in the ring on big days and they have certainly done much more good then they have done bad.

Back to reality, Quality Road connections took a shot, he didn't run poorly, was beat by a colt that was better conditioned, and perhaps justed as talented(?), and we all got to see a fairly decent Travers. If you bet on Quality Road and are a fan because of what he has done in the past I find it strange you could or would have had your opinion change from yesterdays 3rd place finish???

As for Rachel, since everything revolves around the lust I have for her.. She certainly was flattered by the relative ease that Summer Bird won. He is certainly no matche for her abilty.

As for Mine that Bird, congrats to the connections for taking a deep breathe and not pushing the gelding. Hopefully this neat little guy will be around G1 races for a few years.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Quality Road may very well still be the best 3 year old colt..Yesterdays race did nothing to suggest that he won't be the colt that many preceive him to be. I think Cannon Shell said it best when he suggested that it was the owners decision to run in the Travers not Pletchers. I don't blame the owner, you certainly see his name on millions of dollars of stock year after year and winning the Travers is certainly what any owner dreams about. I do feel that in general more good is done for the game with the LaPenta/Zito approach then the super conservative approach cannon Shell was alluding too. You constantly see Zito/LaPenta throwing there hat in the ring on big days and they have certainly done much more good then they have done bad.

Back to reality, Quality Road connections took a shot, he didn't run poorly, was beat by a colt that was better conditioned, and perhaps justed as talented(?), and we all got to see a fairly decent Travers. If you bet on Quality Road and are a fan because of what he has done in the past I find it strange you could or would have had your opinion change from yesterdays 3rd place finish???

As for Rachel, since everything revolves around the lust I have for her.. She certainly was flattered by the relative ease that Summer Bird won. He is certainly no matche for her abilty.

As for Mine that Bird, congrats to the connections for taking a deep breathe and not pushing the gelding. Hopefully this neat little guy will be around G1 races for a few years.

Well said Freddy.

[tector]

If QR comes out of the race fine, then no harm done. But too many times in recent times we have this scenario play out differently.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

Personally I'd like to see Summer Bird and RA meet in the JCGC later this fall, I think the majority of the public actually believe the result in the Haskell is a true indication that RA is that better than SB, I know if it were up to Tim Ice he would love a rematch also, if QR or MTB want to be there all the better. I'm dying to find out just how good RA is when she has to face more than 2 opponents dueling themselves into the track as in the Mother Goose at Belmont or having SB waste himself engaging Munnings in the Haskel...Taking gender out of the equation RA is very good racehorse period, but isn't she also hyped to some degree, being that her only true tough race when conditions were not ideal to her was the Preakness...

Respectfully, Tim Ice wants no part of Rachel and would will avoid her at all costs.You think getting whooped by Rachel will help get those broodmares into the breeding shed? I like Summer Bird a whole bunch. Won a lot of money on him in the Belmont and think he is very solid G1 colt. BUT he can't beat Rachel with a head start. As my friend said recently, "Rachel is reminding everyone what a truly good horse is".

[CSC]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Respectfully, Tim Ice wants no part of Rachel and would will avoid her at all costs.You think getting whooped by Rachel will help get those broodmares into the breeding shed? I like Summer Bird a whole bunch. Won a lot of money on him in the Belmont and think he is very solid G1 colt. BUT he can't beat Rachel with a head start. As my friend said recently, "Rachel is reminding everyone what a truly good horse is".

He wasn't avoiding her under less than favorable condtions in the Haskell and he was ready to take her on in the Travers, he's willing to take her on, if Jess Jackson and Ass-man agree I'm sure they will meet.