Pletcher BC positive; Hearing pending - Page 5

philcski · #81 12-06-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont make assumptions about who is and isnt "juicing". You would be surprised by some of the names that never appear in the papers and seemingly get a pass....

Yeah, agreed... which is why I hedged myself later and said "nobody should get a free pass"...

CSC · #82 12-06-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I have no other evidence but something certainly stinks. Horses typically win when they get favorable trips. Horses winning when they don't get the best trip (or even when they get the worst trip) are a cause for a red flag.

I like to call it the 'energizer bunny' effect, they keep going and going and going...ect...It's important to say we are speculating here, but something didn't quite add up on how his horses ran like alkaline batteries.

CSC · #83 12-06-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The only turf stake i won at CD was the Cardinal and Court was aleady in CA. He did ride Silent Emotion who may have won one of those overnight stakes.

Now I am wracking my brain, it wasn't Silent Emotion that I know, it was before that, Court was the rider and the horse wired the field in a turf route race. I think it paid 9-1, now I don't know why I remember those details but not the horse.

philcski · #84 12-06-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Here's my take on this from a race watching perspective.

In the glory days, Pletcher horses would win, even though, in most cases, they were getting the worst trips, as WIDE Johnny V was up (and giving his patented, wide, no cover, premature trips). You'd typically see JV beating on these horses on the turn and they'd still have enough to draw in the stretch.
Not happening any longer; these horses are not winning with JV up and, interestingly, in some cases, they'll win with another jock and a better trip.

I have no other evidence but something certainly stinks. Horses typically win when they get favorable trips. Horses winning when they don't get the best trip (or even when they get the worst trip) are a cause for a red flag. The dude was a juicer. No doubt about it. They took his drugs away and he's firing blanks (relative to past years). Having been around in the Oscar and Ferraiola , etc. eras, I'd like to think that I can spot juicers.

Very much agree with this

The Fleet Indian "upgrade" was what concerned me the most.

Cannon Shell · #85 12-06-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Now I am wracking my brain, it wasn't Silent Emotion that I know, it was before that, Court was the rider and the horse wired the field in a turf route race. I think it paid 9-1, now I don't know why I remember those details but not the horse.

No Deadline maybe?

Riot · #86 12-07-2008, 12:14 AM

The RMTC has disbanded. There is no need for it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, and years of tedious research, are saved.

Horseplayers on the internet will now officially decide which trainers are juicers, and which horses have been doped.

Voting will be done fans, from their home computers via a soon-to-be-announced website.

Voting will close the Monday after a weekend of racing, at midnight.

Trainer suspensions will be announced by noon every Tuesday.

docicu3 · #87 12-07-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

The RMTC has disbanded. There is no need for it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, and years of tedious research, are saved.

Horseplayers on the internet will now officially decide which trainers are juicers, and which horses have been doped.

Voting will be done fans, from their home computers via a soon-to-be-announced website.

Voting will close the Monday after a weekend of racing, at midnight.

Trainer suspensions will be announced by noon every Tuesday.

Used to be that at the top of the stretch a TAP horse would look other horses in the eye and never back off they all had unbelievable saying power now they don't win even at rates it seems thet should....it's the owners that will drive the game when they take all the horses away.

Riot · #88 12-07-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Since you seem so sure, can you explain what has happened to Pletcher's stable? As has been mentioned here, by astute players, Pletcher's horses seemed to have multiple gears. Suddenly, they don't anymore. I'm not suggesting anything, but since you seem so sure about the point you are poorly making, what has changed exactly?

Sorry. Don't buy the premise, can't contribute to the bit.

the_fat_man · #89 12-07-2008, 02:37 PM

Got to give credit where it's due.

Pletcher has won 2 turf races today:

Tale of a Lady at CRC off an 8 MONTH layoff

and

Il Girasole at HOL off a 15 MONTH layoff

Any way you cut it, that's good training.

Indian Charlie · #90 12-07-2008, 03:45 PM

Clearly the reason for these stats is that he had English Channel in his barn those years, but not this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

He's always been a super trainer off the bench. I believe he got a turf horse to dead heat a few days back at Aqueduct off another big layoff. By no means am I saying Pletcher can't train. He's a very good trainer. But, something is up in the barn.

Here's some interesting stats I read on another board. In terms of grade 1 wins. Pletcher had

10 in 2005
17 in 2006
17 in 2007
3 in 2008

Grade 1 wins in New York for Pletcher

7 in 2005
11 in 2006
8 in 2007
0 in 2008

Yeah, it's business as usual.

CSC · #91 12-07-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No Deadline maybe?

I don't think so, it's okay I've given up, I tried a google search to no avail. I remember making a few dollars that day, thanks to that win. The cheque's in the mail, thanks.

sumitas · #92 12-07-2008, 04:40 PM

Racing needs to keep up the momentum for dope testing . You can see it's levelling the playing field, as one would expect .

AeWingnut · #93 12-07-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

Racing needs to keep up the momentum for dope testing . You can see it's levelling the playing field, as one would expect .

I think we have a positive

Kasept · #94 12-07-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

Racing needs to keep up the momentum for dope testing . You can see it's levelling the playing field, as one would expect .

Where has the playing field been leveled exactly?

Cannon Shell · #95 12-07-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Where has the playing field been leveled exactly?

Yankee Stadium

herkhorse · #96 12-07-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yankee Stadium

sumitas · #97 12-07-2008, 06:39 PM

I don't think Curlin or Big Brown were as effective after being removed from the steroids . Pletcher's record indicates the pressure is on him to stay clean . If racing ever gets on top of the doping it will level the playing field . Maybe that's a better way to put it .

#98 12-07-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yankee Stadium

You need to write for Letterman.
Dave is not having fun anymore.
His material is unexciting... for him.

GPK · #99 12-07-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Clearly the reason for these stats is that he had English Channel in his barn those years, but not this one.

Riot · #**100** 12-07-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Thought so.

Oh, please. You think most of what has been said on here regarding Pletcher's record and horses is "astute"?

I think most of it has the depth of considered analysis consistent with the average high-school student.

And the only thing you guys can come up with for a change in trainer performance over a few years is drugs?

Excuse me while I split a gut pealing over with laughter