Trying To Make Money On Big Brown Today... - Page 5

Gander · #81 08-05-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He got beaten a neck by a horse that's way better than anybody Big Brown has faced. Plus, consider that it was his sixth start since February, three weeks after running his eyeballs out to beat Street Sense in the Preakness. Do you think Big Brown would've done better in that situation?

I dont really know. Its impossible to say. I was surprised Big Brown bounced back so quick (2 weeks) to crush the field in the Preakness. I dont think you are giving him enough credit for 2 reasons:

His lack of comeptition (not his fault)
His no show in the Belmont (still a question as to why)

Look, he was all out to win the Haskell, so maybe he is all done. But you have to be impressed with a horse who won from those outside posts in the Florida Derby and KY Derby. I dont care who he beat.

I think Curlin's competition was indeed very good so its obviously a no brainer that most think Curlin is the better horse (myself included). But I wouldnt ridicule those who think Big Brown is as good.

Antitrust32 · #82 08-05-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He got beaten a neck by a horse that's way better than anybody Big Brown has faced. Plus, consider that it was his sixth start since February, three weeks after running his eyeballs out to beat Street Sense in the Preakness. Do you think Big Brown would've done better in that situation?

I might get in trouble for saying this.. and I love Rags to Riches as much as anyone!

But this is just a question I am wondering your opinion... especially since I know how you feel about Rags too... How much better is Rags to Riches than Eight Belles??

Gander · #83 08-05-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I agree with everything you're saying except for this - for the simple fact that Curlin and Any Given Saturday had very similar trips. Curlin was only a length or two behind AGS for most of the race and the two of them were right next to each other at the top of the stretch. If anything Albarado may have moved too soon on Curlin, but I think it's fair to say that Curlin had a bit of an off day in the Haskell - even if it was still an ok performance.

The things that Dutrow said about Curlin are really ridiculous and absurd - you'd think that he would be smart enough to keep his mouth shut this time. I especially enjoyed "Curlin got beat by a filly, we didn't." Well, Dick, you got beat by the whole field in that same race the next year - including a maiden. And "Our horse in undefeated on the grass. Curlin isn't." Aside from the fact that he wasn't "your" horse when he won his ONE start on grass, that was in a MSW vs. nobody while Curlin's was in a Grade 1 vs. two BC winners.

I completely forgot about Curlin's Haskell. I didnt think it was a good effort at all. But he gets a free pass because Any Given Saturday and Hard Spun ran
first and second and they were great horses.

FGFan · #84 08-05-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Eight Belles

The filly and mare division is tough this year, better than the boys I think.

smuthg · #85 08-05-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Eight Belles

by daylight...

hockey2315 · #86 08-05-2008, 01:12 PM

This'll be fun:

Eight Belles vs. Rags to Riches

SniperSB23 · #87 08-05-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

This'll be fun:

Eight Belles vs. Rags to Riches

Rags

Antitrust32 · #88 08-05-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I might get in trouble for saying this.. and I love Rags to Riches as much as anyone!

But this is just a question I am wondering your opinion... especially since I know how you feel about Rags too... How much better is Rags to Riches than Eight Belles??

not interested in answering this o.e.y??? or do you actually have a life unlike me..

ateamstupid · #89 08-05-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

not interested in answering this o.e.y??? or do you actually have a life unlike me..

I never said anything bad about Rags to Riches. I said she wasn't a 'monster'. She was definitely better than Eight Belles.

ateamstupid · #90 08-05-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I agree with everything you're saying except for this - for the simple fact that Curlin and Any Given Saturday had very similar trips. Curlin was only a length or two behind AGS for most of the race and the two of them were right next to each other at the top of the stretch. If anything Albarado may have moved too soon on Curlin, but I think it's fair to say that Curlin had a bit of an off day in the Haskell - even if it was still an ok performance.

It was impossible to make up ground that day/weekend. Any Given Saturday just ran a gigantic race and I think it helped knock him out for the rest of the year.

Gander · #91 08-05-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It was impossible to make up ground that day/weekend. Any Given Saturday just ran a gigantic race and I think it helped knock him out for the rest of the year.

LOL, it was the only time I ever needed Curlin to win from a wagering standpoint. I thought he had every chance to win and great horses overcome track biases. Just look at Ghostzapper in the Kings Bishop. If there was ever a more speed biased track than that day, I'd like to hear about it. I know he lost the race but he sure made up a ton of ground.

Cannon Shell · #92 08-05-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Not only two turf sprints, but the great Mike Dini making an appearance at the Spa......

No jacket and too cheap to hire a groom

ateamstupid · #93 08-05-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

LOL, it was the only time I ever needed Curlin to win from a wagering standpoint. I thought he had every chance to win and great horses overcome track biases. Just look at Ghostzapper in the Kings Bishop. If there was ever a more speed biased track than that day, I'd like to hear about it. I know he lost the race but he sure made up a ton of ground.

Don't look for an anti-Ghostzapper argument from me.

ArlJim78 · #94 08-05-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I thought his FL Derby win from post 12 and Kentucky Derby win from post 20 were pretty great.

No horse has won a route from post 12 at Gulfstream in how many years and BB did it in the biggest race at the track? Let alone the Kentucky Derby from the IMPOSSIBLE post. I think that is a great accomplishment.

those were his best performances, for sure. but what recent derby winner could not have beat that field this year, from any post? remember most horses in the field had best beyer figs of mid nineties. do you think Barbaro or Street Sense or Hard Spun would have any problem?

Gander · #95 08-05-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Don't look for an anti-Ghostzapper argument from me.

I remember you being a huge fan. I didnt like the fact he only ran 4-5 times a year, but man, he could turn heads. What a turn of foot from any position in the pack.

Scav · #96 08-05-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No jacket and too cheap to hire a groom

He drove the horse there also

I am surprised he didn't wear the Dini Racing Jacket from 1999

hockey2315 · #97 08-05-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It was impossible to make up ground that day/weekend. Any Given Saturday just ran a gigantic race and I think it helped knock him out for the rest of the year.

It couldn't have been impossible if AGS did it

Antitrust32 · #98 08-05-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

those were his best performances, for sure. but what recent derby winner could not have beat that field this year, from any post? remember most horses in the field had best beyer figs of mid nineties. do you think Barbaro or Street Sense or Hard Spun would have any problem?

In my humble and frequently incorrect opinion,

Barbaro, yes he most likely would win, the other two no, a filly would have won the derby and then tragically died 30 seconds later (

). Not from 20.. I also think Barbaro would be the only one to win the FL derby from #12 either.

Gander · #99 08-05-2008, 02:48 PM

This is kind of funny....

SARATOGA SPRINGS, N.Y. - Not too long after Big Brown returned to the winner's circle in Sunday's $1 million Haskell Invitational at Monmouth Park, his trainer, Richard Dutrow Jr., also returned to form.

Following the Haskell press conference, the topic of Curlin, the defending Horse of the Year, and the Breeders' Cup Classic came up. Dutrow, known for his candidness and cockiness during the Triple Crown run, gave his assessment of Curlin.

"Curlin couldn't win the Derby, we could," Dutrow said. "Curlin couldn't win [the Haskell], we could. Curlin got beat [by] a filly. We haven't. Our horse is undefeated on the grass. Curlin isn't. I don't know why people think Curlin is such a good horse. We're way better than Curlin."

ArlJim78 · #**100** 08-05-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Guess we will see if he runs a couple more times but figure me for one to laugh at too. He romped out of the 12 post at Gulf and rolled out of the 20 post in Louisville. I don't disagree that he hasn't beaten real god ones and he did clunk at the Belmont. But he looked dead beaten at the 1/4 pole last weekend and still got it done. It'll be interesting to see how he does vs older.

the question was whether or not Big Brown is better than Curlin, or if he is a great horse. it will be interesting to see how he does against older, I'm doubtful that will happen though.