Invasor, Excitement?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by todko

He's just a lucky horse in the right place at the right time -- just like Giacomo was.

I think this is known as posting for a reaction. This is your 8th post here...perhaps proving you are NOT a troll would be a great idea before trolling.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by todko

A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from him.

Hahahahahaha! That was a good one. I think you meant to put it in the 'Joke of the Day' thread though.

[Gander]

I'll have to resepctfully disagree, but I get your point.

As far as final times go, why would this horse exert himself when he has an open length lead at the 1/8th pole and barely ran that fast to get it? Do you want him to sprint home like 3 turf horses in a flying finish to the wire?

What we should agree on is that next weekend will answer many of the doubts about Bernardini.

Like him or not, we should all appreciate that hes sticking around to try elders. Unlike Point Given who never gave it a shot, yet gets heralded as some super horse when all he did was beat E Dubai and Touch Tone.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Hahahahahaha! That was a good one. I think you meant to put it in the 'Joke of the Day' thread though.

Sniper, see my sarcastic post just below his original post on how "lucky" Bernardini was.

I don't think that Invasor will be any match for this horse. One could also say that Invasor has gotten lucky from a weak older handicap division as well. Who has he beaten? An injured Flower Alley? Where are those extraordinary times that he has been putting up?

Now I think Invasor is an extremely nice horse and deserves top older horse honors in the division if he can outdo Lava Man in the BCC, but I think Bernardini is going to prove to be better than him. My opinion is that Bernardini is going to be your HOY.

Another thing, I don't know how much weight this holds because something might have been going on with Invasor in Dubai (didn't like the climate, minor injury, didn't ship well), but look at what Discreet Cat did to him in Dubai...

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

You're going to be a rich man or woman, Todko. If I felt as strongly as you do, I'd be loading up against Bernardini in the JCGC. Since you have no doubt that Invasor will beat Bernardini, I trust you will be betting the farm on that proposition.

Off the top of my head, I'd say there's maybe a 1/3 chance that Invasor will finish ahead of Bernardini. It's not going to shock me either way. However, it WOULD shock me if Invasor wins by 8. It would not shock me if Bernardini wins by 8. That's the difference to me. We've probably seen the best or nearly the best from Invasor. We don't know what Bernardini's best is yet.

--Dunbar

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I really haven't said a word on this because there is really no way to tell until he meets elders. His wins have been so dominant that there isn't any way to knock him based on what hes beaten. Its not like hes been beating them by a length.
Still the only question I have is what will happen if he gets looked in the eye in the stretch. I'm very curious as to what will happen if and when this occurs.

He'll scare the living poo out of the horse who tries...

[todko]

Originally Posted by Gander

Exactly. But whos to say he will ever get looked in the eye?
Stay tuned, he meets a very good Invasor next week and Dylan Thomas who supposedly is all the rage. I hear they sing folk songs about him in the mountains.

Dylan Thomas is Danehill on the dirt. Out of a Diesis mare. He'll do nothing on the dirt. I was hoping they would send him here as the poly may give him a better chance.

[Cajungator26]

Well, personally I can't wait until the JCGC. I haven't been as impressed with Bernardini as most either and I think that Invasor will beat him. If I'm wrong, then I'll admit that I'm wrong, but I think that Invasor is the better horse.

[todko]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Yep, Bernardini is slow alright. It has been ALL luck that he won the Preakness, Jim Dandy, Withers, and Travers. It was all luck that he ran his last three races with -TG numbers and 113-116 BSFs. It was all luck that he ran one of the fastest times ever in the Travers and ran sub 155 in the Preakness. No, Bluegrass Cat couldn't have gotten injured because he was trying so hard to keep up with Bernardini. That couldn't possibly be a reason. Bluegrass Cat would have definitely beat him if he wasn't injured in the Travers. Yep...

And all of those other horses are allowance horses that Bernardini ran against in the Travers too. High Cotton is definitely an allowance horse...yep. As is Dr. Pleasure, Hesanoldsalt, and Minister's Bid. Shame on Pletcher, Zito, and Ward for even putting those horses in that race.

If you're really that high on speed figures you might believe in Bernardini. Next time you go to the track -- bet on speed figures. Don't look at anything else. Let me know if you come home with any money.

Bluegrass Cat wore front wraps for the first time in the Travers. He had issues before the race. It might not be on the pps, but look at the tapes. Any horse that has run like he has run in GI races can't cut better than a :48+ and 1:12+? He was not the same BC than ran in the Derby and afterward we found that out. Lucky he's alive. He normally wouldn't be injured trying to keep up with a :48+ half and a nearly 1:13 6f call. He was very capable of keeping up with those fractions given normal health.

It's not like Bernardini was Ghostzapper and Bluegrass Cat blew out a pastern trying to keep up with a phenomenal pace.

A healthy BC would have been well ahead of Bernardini.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think this is known as posting for a reaction. This is your 8th post here...perhaps proving you are NOT a troll would be a great idea before trolling.

though I don't even remotly agree with what TODKO has stated, he is one of those who thinks the industry is truly biased in favor of the East Coast and Ny in particular, I can defintly vouch that he is not a Troll. I know him from the Del Mar site.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

To use the excuse that Brother Derek and SNS were spent is nonsense. They were not the better horse that day at all. In fact Brother Derek has been nothing since racing outside of Cali. Are they the only two horse in history to ever run in derby Preps and run in the first two legs of the TC? Look at Afleet Alex's run last year. Ran in three derby Preps and all three TC's races. To say they were "tired" as an excuse is just that an excuse. They were beaten soundly by a much better horse. At if you research boodhorse.com and plug in SNS you will find the reason you have not seen him is because the trainer is keeping him as far away as possible from Bernardini. I dont' think he is a "Super Horse" yet either but to not give him any credit just because of SoCal absolutly dismal preformances in all the major races for 3 yr olds in just being stubborn to adimit you're wrong.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by todko

If you're really that high on speed figures you might believe in Bernardini. Next time you go to the track -- bet on speed figures. Don't look at anything else. Let me know if you come home with any money.

Bluegrass Cat wore front wraps for the first time in the Travers. He had issues before the race. It might not be on the pps, but look at the tapes. Any horse that has run like he has run in GI races can't cut better than a :48+ and 1:12+? He was not the same BC than ran in the Derby and afterward we found that out. Lucky he's alive. He normally wouldn't be injured trying to keep up with a :48+ half and a nearly 1:13 6f call. He was very capable of keeping up with those fractions given normal health.

It's not like Bernardini was Ghostzapper and Bluegrass Cat blew out a pastern trying to keep up with a phenomenal pace.

A healthy BC would have been well ahead of Bernardini.

Ahah, you caught that, BC had front wraps on. He probably did have issues, but he broke the leg by running in the race against a superior animal.

You obviously didn't watch Bernardini's Preakness when he sat off the pace of a sub 47 half mile and made a brillant move around the far turn. Why run any faster than you have to? I think Bernardini's best races are going to be those in which he sits off of the pace, and blows by horses, like he did in the Preakness. He found himself on the lead in the Jim Dandy and the Travers because no one else took it. His final time for the Travers was still very fast.

Anyway, I'm not excessively big on BSFs. I use them with a red flag because they can be biased. However, when a horse consistently puts up those kind of numbers, he is the real deal. The numbers also show that the horse is improving. A lot of people have had a lot of luck using the numbers and sheets.

I personally like watching the replays and looking at the horses in the post parade when betting. Bernardini is the real deal. In watching his races, you can see that he is improving with every start, from his 4th place in his maiden to his Travers. He beat those same horses that he beat by nine lengths in the Jim Dandy, by about 15 lenghts in the Travers. It was also Bernardini's first race going a mile and a quarter. I watch the races, and what I see is a horse with extraordinary talent.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by todko

If you're really that high on speed figures you might believe in Bernardini. Next time you go to the track -- bet on speed figures. Don't look at anything else. Let me know if you come home with any money.

Bluegrass Cat wore front wraps for the first time in the Travers. He had issues before the race. It might not be on the pps, but look at the tapes. Any horse that has run like he has run in GI races can't cut better than a :48+ and 1:12+? He was not the same BC than ran in the Derby and afterward we found that out. Lucky he's alive. He normally wouldn't be injured trying to keep up with a :48+ half and a nearly 1:13 6f call. He was very capable of keeping up with those fractions given normal health.

It's not like Bernardini was Ghostzapper and Bluegrass Cat blew out a pastern trying to keep up with a phenomenal pace.

A healthy BC would have been well ahead of Bernardini.

Why compare Ghostzapper and Bernardini now? Bernardini isn't done racing. You don't know what he will become. He could be another overhyped horse, or he could be the next superhorse. From what I have seen, I am banking on the latter. Even if the older horses do beat him...Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, and Affirmed even got beat by older as 3 yos. However, if he beats these horse in the JCGC and BCC, I don't think that there are too many people that are going to leave him off their greatest of all time lists. He'll definitely be on mine.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by todko

Gander,

Just look at the cold hard facts, he's beaten nobody in average times, he's done nothing to justify the "superhorse" label he has received. Don't tell me about Grade I wins either -- Giacomo won a bigger race than Bernardini, Smarty won more impressively without a rest, Birdstone took down the Belmont and then the Travers. None were called "superhorse". Why should Bernardini be?

To me, and he may prove me wrong (but I doubt it), he's a product of the press hoping to move away from Barbaro.

A "superhorse" proves it against tough company. Ghostzapper vs. Roses In May or St. Liam cutting a 1 1/4 in 1:59 and change.

Bernardini may get a free ride all the way. He surely doesn't have any Ghostzapper, Roses In May, or St. Liam to run against even if he gets past Invasor.

He's just a lucky horse in the right place at the right time -- just like Giacomo was.

I hate to break it to you but there is nothing average about his times and luck had nothing to do with his wins.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Nc Tony,
Quite frankly I'm stunned! You mean there others besides me who find guys who take the time to compile a list of all a guys losing mounts in a week, then when asked to cite one bad ride that the jockey gave, says oh I didn't see any of those.
The irony of morons like that posing as people who know anything about the game at all is not lost on me either.
What you have a is a bunch of guys who never start threads about anything, because they don't have any original thoughts or enough knowledge of the game to say anything worthwhile. What these guys do is read threads looking for fault with something that someone says. They contribute ZERO to the place yet try to assasinate others who do. They are the very worst type of trolls on the net, the kind who attempt to masquerade as non trolls. At least the trolls who come out and admit they are trolls have the guts to do that.
There is nothing more useless than folks who never have anything relevant or educational to say, who just sit around reading threads attempting to find fault with those who do.
But you can't blame Steve NC Tony, asking him to sit around all day long and monitor every thread is not reasonable.

He would have to Ban People from the board. Repeat offenders should be banned. It's his board and he can do that. He has other monitors as well. If he wants, I could be his policeman.lol

NC Tony

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by NoCarolinaTony

He would have to Ban People from the board. Repeat offenders should be banned. It's his board and he can do that. He has other monitors as well. If he wants, I could be his policeman.lol

NC Tony

If you want you can take it private. Just determine who are the accpetable posters, contact them all, and start you own private club that is not open to the public. I believe the technology exists to do this and then you won't have to wade through any unacceptable threads/posts.

Since this is a public moderated forum it gets a little messy at times and you do have to spend some time wading through stuff that doesn't always have the highest value. I think each person has certain types of stuff that interest them and causes them to post, and not all posts of every poster are constructive.

I personally am not in favor of more police activity and more banning. I think the current balance is about right.

[NoCarolinaTony]

ArlingtonJim,

You're correct. I don't want to bother with that(policing) either. I'll just lurk and chime in when I find something worthwhile and sift through the junk. What was I thinking. I should have known better than to even think it.

This site has grown real fast, so ironing out the kinks is something that will take some time.

Steve, you got a lot of supporters on this site including me. ( You should know that already)

NC Tony

[todko]

Originally Posted by boswd

though I don't even remotly agree with what TODKO has stated, he is one of those who thinks the industry is truly biased in favor of the East Coast and Ny in particular, I can defintly vouch that he is not a Troll. I know him from the Del Mar site.

New York racing is among the finest in the nation. Delaware Park has some good races and is a fair track to play. I have nothing against East Coast racing. I routinely bet Delaware and Colonial. Belmont also.

What bothers me is the bias of the press, notably the DRF. The written press seems biased to the east while the television press (TVG, HRTV) are biased to the west coast. It's tough to see a big race on hold while TVG shows the post parade at Fairplex.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by todko

New York racing is among the finest in the nation. Delaware Park has some good races and is a fair track to play. I have nothing against East Coast racing. I routinely bet Delaware and Colonial. Belmont also.

What bothers me is the bias of the press, notably the DRF. The written press seems biased to the east while the television press (TVG, HRTV) are biased to the west coast. It's tough to see a big race on hold while TVG shows the post parade at Fairplex.

I love the happenings at both Deleware and Colonial. It just goes to show you if you have ambitious managment and cooperative state govt. good things can happen in this sport. Out here in Boston we have none of that. Did once when Ruffoto was managing Suffolk Downs but he went on the Marlyland. the State govt. out here would just assume that the track just wither up and die. It's a shame because, if there was quality racing out here it would work. So many people from New England make the annual trip to Saratoga. The market is there. It's sad

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by boswd

We have heard about the great accomplishments of Lava Man, SA "Cap, HOGC, Pac Classic, Bernardini - Preakness, Jim Dandy, Travers. All great accomplishments and very worthy of all the praise they are receiving.

But Invasor is on the verge of, IMO, of accomplishing something just as if not more special - The Pimilco Special, The Suburban, The Whitney and possible the Jockey Club Gold Cup. That is a super horse type year. And yet there is little to no talk of this.

I think YOU could have won the Pimlico Special, Suburban, and Whitney if u were racing against some of the mules that Invasor has been running against.