Jockey Club Gold Cup

Originally Posted by dalakhani

That wasnt what i was questioning although that is debatable. I was questioning whether or not roses in may "would have won any other running" of the BCC.

his number was faster than both wins, as was his fractional energy use breakdown. I say yes, his performance was better than the wins by the two you named. You guys seem to forget how nice that field was and how far back the rest of em were.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

That wasnt what i was questioning although that is debatable. I was questioning whether or not roses in may "would have won any other running" of the BCC.

You question whether Roses In May would have won any other BC Classics? He would have won most of them. RIM ran good enough that day to win most other years. I'd have to look through the archives, but off the top of my head I would say that the race that RIM ran in the Classic would have won the BC Classic probaby at least 7 times out of the last 10 years, probably even more. He ran huge that day to GZ. He beat the rest of the field by about 3-4 lengths.

With regard to Alysheba, I was a huge Alysheba fan. I bet him in the Derby. Even though I was ahuge fan of his, I will tell you that GZ would have killed Alysheba. It would have been no contest. GZ is in a totally different league. GZ is a freak. Alysheba was a really good horse but GZ is another league.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You question whether Roses In May would have won any other BC Classics? He would have won most of them. RIM ran good enough that day to win most other years. I'd have to look through the archives, but off the top of my head I would say that the race that RIM ran in the Classic would have won the BC Classic probaby at least 7 times out of the last 10 years, probably even more. He ran huge that day to GZ. He beat the rest of the field by about 3-4 lengths.

With regard to Alysheba, I was a huge Alysheba fan. I bet him in the Derby. Even though I was ahuge fan of his, I will tell you that GZ would have killed Alysheba. It would have been no contest. GZ is in a totally different league. GZ is a freak. Alysheba was a really good horse but GZ is another league.

When you say "GZ would have killed Alysheba" and "GZ is another league", you probably should add "when GZ was able to run".

How fast would GZ have run that BCC if it was HIS 9th race of the year?

My response to statements re GZ is usually, yeah, but what if Alysheba and GZ raced against each other 9 times in a year? Which horse would win more? I think there's a good chance it would have been Alysheba. If so, who's the "greater" horse? Why should greatness be determined by a single race match race? Why not best of 9?

Don't get me wrong. I think GZ was phenomenal, and agree, too, that RIM would have won many a BCC. But when comparing two horses, there's more to it than assuming they each run their best race. Some like Alysheba and Cigar (and Mineshaft!) demonstrate excellence by running at the very top level race after race.

--Dunbar

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

When you say "GZ would have killed Alysheba" and "GZ is another league", you probably should add "when GZ was able to run".

How fast would GZ have run that BCC if it was HIS 9th race of the year?

My response to statements re GZ is usually, yeah, but what if Alysheba and GZ raced against each other 9 times in a year? Which horse would win more? I think there's a good chance it would have been Alysheba. If so, who's the "greater" horse? Why should greatness be determined by a single race match race? Why not best of 9?

Don't get me wrong. I think GZ was phenomenal, and agree, too, that RIM would have won many a BCC. But when comparing two horses, there's more to it than assuming they each run their best race. Some like Alysheba and Cigar (and Mineshaft!) demonstrate excellence by running at the very top level race after race.

--Dunbar

I agree with you. There are many criteria to use in determing greatness. GZ was obviously not as duarable as most of the good horses over the years. GZ was a bit fragile. I was simply talking about GZ on his best day. When he ran his race, which he usually did, he could pretty much beat anyone.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well GZ did run at the very top level race after race, just not with the regularity that you or some would have liked. Don't really see the relevance of it being his 9th, or 29th race of the year. The horse flat out ran his eyeballs out everytime he stepped foot on the track, minus one time. He was obviously unbelievably talented, but also very fragile. For a very fragile horse he certainly made the most of it. His Classic and Met Mile wins were as scintilating as it gets. Alysheba was great, Cigar was of course great and Mineshaft was as well. They were all a hell of a lot more durable than Zapper. Better than him, I doubt it.

Yes, I agree with everything you said.

[Gander]

GZ was a bit fragile

The understatement of the century. Held together like a glass figurine.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Zappers BCC was without a doubt the fastest fig wise. It wasn't quite exciting to watch until you went back and got a better view of just how impressive his internal fractions were. I don't knock Zapper or his fans. He was a bit fragile though, could only race a few times a year, but when he was right, he was very right. I think 10 furlongs wasn't what he wanted to do, which is scary. A flat mile on dirt in the Breeders Cup would've been wild to see just how fast he could run it in. To me that was his best distance.

gz's bcc was as exciting to watch as war emblems. yaaawn.

a good performance, but watching golf was more exciting...

and i nominate randalls sentance above for understatement of the year! 'he was a bit fragile....'

a BIT?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

GZ was a bit fragile

The understatement of the century. Held together like a glass figurine.

arrrrghhh!

lol
ya beat me to it. timing is EVERYTHING.

at any rate, i second the motion!

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with you. There are many criteria to use in determing greatness. GZ was obviously not as duarable as most of the good horses over the years. GZ was a bit fragile. I was simply talking about GZ on his best day. When he ran his race, which he usually did, he could pretty much beat anyone.

And I agree with your last statement, too.

I just looked up Alysheba's record. He won 6 Grade I's as a 4-yr-old. AND, he set track records at a mile-and-a-quarter at Belmont and the Meadowlands. Not too shabby.

from http://www.equineinfo.com/alison/aly...tm#racedetails

"WON Breeders' Cup Classic (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi.), Santa Anita H (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi., 1:59 4/5), Woodward H (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi., 1:59 2/5, NTR, top-weighted), Meadowlands Cup H (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi., 1:58 4/5, NTR), Charles H. Strub S (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi.), Philip H. Iselin H (gr. 1, 1 1/8 mi.), San Bernardino H (gr. II, 1 1/8 mi.). "

--Dunbar

[Gander]

Its actually an interesting theory. How much better would Cigar and Skip Away had been if they only ran 4-5 times a year? There is no telling. Perhaps those horses werent as medicated and were able to hold their health better. I have a friend who uses blow 5-6 times a week and lets just say he looks more like 50, rather than the 32 he actually is. He cant exercise more than once or twice a month.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!!
Non sheet guys are pretty funny!!! Alysheba? Cigar? Do you ave any idea just how fast Zapper was? I suggest you hit the archives at TG and take a look. he was absolutely insanely fast. he would have crushed either,

assuming he gets the easy lead again, yeah, maybe....that's the funny thing about theories, you can insert any horse, any random event.

i always like the inaugural bcc...shame that slew o gold was off that day, they shouldn't have run him, but i understand why they did.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

gz's bcc was as exciting to watch as war emblems. yaaawn.

a good performance, but watching golf was more exciting...

and i nominate randalls sentance above for understatement of the year! 'he was a bit fragile....'

a BIT?

Ahem....Deb????

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well GZ did run at the very top level race after race, just not with the regularity that you or some would have liked. Don't really see the relevance of it being his 9th, or 29th race of the year. The horse flat out ran his eyeballs out everytime he stepped foot on the track, minus one time. He was obviously unbelievably talented, but also very fragile. For a very fragile horse he certainly made the most of it. His Classic and Met Mile wins were as scintilating as it gets. Alysheba was great, Cigar was of course great and Mineshaft was as well. They were all a hell of a lot more durable than Zapper. Better than him, I doubt it.

easy goer was fragile, shugs work with him was phenomenal. gz was made of glass. and no way i'd breed to that, not in ten million years. just what the sport needs!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GPK

Ahem....Deb????

LOL

yeah man??? sorry, not a golf fan....

i can go back and edit, change it to bowling!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

LOL

yeah man??? sorry, not a golf fan....

i can go back and edit, change it to bowling!

just giving you a hard time babe.

[Danzig]

oooohhh, those are my favorite times....


lmao
i bet the look on your face is priceless!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

oooohhh, those are my favorite times....


lmao
i bet the look on your face is priceless!

*faint*

[Danzig]

lol

hey, did you go play doc...i mean, go to the doctor today?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

lol

hey, did you go play doc...i mean, go to the doctor today?

yeah...cleared me to return to work. Said I still have another 2 months until I have complete recovery. Still cant lift anything heavy...and that still leaves going to the bathroom a huge problem.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GPK

yeah...cleared me to return to work. Said I still have another 2 months until I have complete recovery. Still cant lift anything heavy...and that still leaves going to the bathroom a huge problem.

LOL!!! oh boy....glad to hear it kev. well, not the bathroom difficulties part--it's the only back you've got, take care of it!