Pletcher BC positive; Hearing pending - Page 4

Danzig · #61 12-05-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob

and Michael Wrona thought he was being slandered by Bogey...

good point.

and i almost gagged when i read the assman might get the eclipse.

Cannon Shell · #62 12-05-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Hmmm... I'm stumped. Back to the drawing board.

Thanks for clarifying- I have the utmost respect for KMc, by the way. One of the few high % trainers I am 98% sure is not utilizing illegal chemistry.

Dont make assumptions about who is and isnt "juicing". You would be surprised by some of the names that never appear in the papers and seemingly get a pass....

Cannon Shell · #63 12-05-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

We know Chuck doesn't cheat...look at his win %.

It's a joke, don't blast me for that anyone.

I am going to start cheating next year...look for a better % in 09

Cannon Shell · #64 12-05-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Watson

i will guess 235.

I wish

Scav · #65 12-05-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Watson

i will guess 235.

maybe 8th grade

Cannon Shell · #66 12-05-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

maybe 8th grade

Hey when i was working for jerkens i was right around 210.

And I dont mean to sound harsh but it is really hard to tell who is "cheating" by positives. Most of the real "cheating" is done with substances that dont have tests or the authorities dont know exist. Some guys are pretty brazen and those arent hard to assume. However there are others that would make your head would spin that have done some really shady things.

The current Pletcher positive is a case of murky rules and poor judgement. I have no idea why they would use PP that close since everyone knows (vets) that it lingers and everyone (especially vets and trainers) is supposed to know that the BC horses are "super" tested for hundreds of substances instead of the typical 10 -20.

Dr. Watson · #67 12-05-2008, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am going to start cheating next year...look for a better % in 09

!!!!

private message me and let me know when. pick out a horse who will be a big price for the first time you do it but scratch him till he finds just the right weak field with a bad favorite or two and we will make big

Cannon Shell · #68 12-05-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Watson

!!!!

private message me and let me know when. pick out a horse who will be a big price for the first time you do it but scratch him till he finds just the right weak field with a bad favorite or two and we will make big

We are going to use the good stuff so weak fields wont be a factor.

Dr. Watson · #69 12-05-2008, 10:12 PM

but how good? good enough stuff to make Big Booster win the breeders cup sprint?

CSC · #70 12-06-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am going to start cheating next year...look for a better % in 09

Let me know when you do.

BTW Who is that horse that I am thinking of that you trained on turf which Jon Court rode that won that stake at Churchill Downs? I can't remember (her?) name, red silks I believe...

CSC · #71 12-06-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

He has lost several owners and some are using him less eclusively but without knowing the owners' reasons it's hard to pin it on one caus. Maybe those trainers who supported him when he started didn't like the vast increase in the size of his operation. Some may have preferred different assistant trainers and others may have chosen not to stay on as Todd's day rate increased. There are alot of reasons to move from one trainer to another.
I do think that Seth was a great assistant. He is methodical and has a head like an encyclopedia. I cannot imagine that losing him didn't hurt Todd. I don't know Tristan so I can't make any comparision but losing Seth couldn't have been good.

For a guy who's clients can't get away fast enough, he sure has alot of horses.

Agreed he still has clients, it's the one's he has lost that are abit more confusing. I think there is a reason here beneign as it may be, but not being an insider I guess we will never know just why.

the_fat_man · #72 12-06-2008, 01:09 PM

Here's my take on this from a race watching perspective.

In the glory days, Pletcher horses would win, even though, in most cases, they were getting the worst trips, as WIDE Johnny V was up (and giving them his patented, wide, no cover, premature trips). You'd typically see JV beating on these horses on the turn and they'd still have enough to draw in the stretch.
Not happening any longer; these horses are not winning with JV up and, interestingly, in some cases, they'll win with another jock and a better trip.

I have no other evidence but something certainly stinks. Horses typically win when they get favorable trips. Horses winning when they don't get the best trip (or even when they get the worst trip) are a cause for a red flag. The dude was a juicer. No doubt about it. They took his drugs away and he's firing blanks (relative to past years). Having been around in the Oscar and Ferraiola , etc. eras, I'd like to think that I can spot juicers.

Cannon Shell · #73 12-06-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Let me know when you do.

BTW Who is that horse that I am thinking of that you trained on turf which Jon Court rode that won that stake at Churchill Downs? I can't remember (her?) name, red silks I believe...

The only turf stake i won at CD was the Cardinal and Court was aleady in CA. He did ride Silent Emotion who may have won one of those overnight stakes.

GPK · #74 12-06-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Watson

i will guess 235.

Yeah...and I'm 6'7"

Cannon Shell · #75 12-06-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Watson

but how good? good enough stuff to make Big Booster win the breeders cup sprint?

good enough to make the Green Monkey break his maiden

AeWingnut · #76 12-06-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The only turf stake i won at CD was the Cardinal and Court was aleady in CA. He did ride Silent Emotion who may have won one of those overnight stakes.

SILENT EMOTION @ Kentucky Downs ?
not a graded Stake

or an allowance @ Churchill with The Knight Sky?

Cannon Shell · #77 12-06-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

SILENT EMOTION @ Kentucky Downs ?
not a graded Stake

or an allowance @ Churchill with The Knight Sky?

I dont remember

King Glorious · #78 12-06-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Before this turns into the Ox Bow Incident, be aware that the violation is for Penicillin G Procaine, a Class 3 violation. This is a routine antibiotic used regularly with horses for a million reasons. It is not something that is going to enhance performance.

What is stunning about this is how stupid a thing it is for the Pletcher barn to have been using in close proximity to a major event. It is amazing that a guy who runs a business like Pletcher, would allow use of Penicillin G Procaine near one of his Breeders' Cup scheduled runners even 45 or 60 days out.

And scheduled withdrawl for it is 15 days...

This isn't 'cheating'.. It's sloppiness.

I agree with this. Would also add that even though the scheduled withdrawal time is 15 days, as you alluded to, it sometimes takes much longer and so administering it even 45 days out could be taking a risk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honu

I mean how hard is it to say hey boss we treated that filly with penicillian cream for her cracked heals or whatever the case may be and we arent sure if she will clear do you want to have her urine tested to make sure. Its very simple to avoid a bad test if people are on top of things and honest.

For the most part, I agree with this. But with this stuff, you can test on Friday and come up clear and test again on Saturday and find it.

AeWingnut · #79 12-06-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont remember

Jon Court wins a race for you and you don't remember?

I remember that time he won for me and I had to sign for a $2k exacta at Oaklawn

he was #8

I wonder why he isn't doing so well. The guy used to bring in everything and anything so long as he wasn't up against Pat Day

Cannon Shell · #80 12-06-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

Jon Court wins a race for you and you don't remember?

I remember that time he won for me and I had to sign for a $2k exacta at Oaklawn

he was #8

I wonder why he isn't doing so well. The guy used to bring in everything and anything so long as he wasn't up against Pat Day

He won a few for me, I know he won a race at CD on the grass on Silent Emotion. I dont remember who rode her when she won the stake at KD. Maybe Joe Johnson? I know he won a stake there for me on Karly's Harley. As a matter of fact I think they both won the same meet.