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  #61  
Old 06-30-2008, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Steve...you know better than to use this arguement..."I have too much to lose..." Sounds like Roger Clemens. He didnt fail a drug test either...

I am not implying that Levine is clean or dirty. But the defense that "i have never had a violation" means that they may just be a careful cheater as opposed to the sloppy ones who regularly make headlines. As Eric points out with regularity, it is close to impossible or at least hard to tell who is clean and who isnt anymore. As a trainer I just say that we all pretty much use the same feed, the same hay, the same help, the same tracks, the same vets, the same jockeys...yet some guys seem to have magical powers despite all the similarities. It is hard not to be skeptical when there is no apparent advantage yet the numbers become extraordinary. A clembuterol positive doesnt make a trainer dirty anymore than a "spotless" record makes anyone clean. The REAL drug issue that Andy and others have spoke about wont show up on anybody's record because the commissions are testing for stuff that pretty much went out of style 10 years ago.
I hear you.. I was making the point that it seemed ridiculous that NJ officials thought there was a chance he would be caught using EPO. As I said, if he's taking an edge, he's doing it 'conventionally'...
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  #62  
Old 06-30-2008, 05:08 PM
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Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
I hear you.. I was making the point that it seemed ridiculous that NJ officials thought there was a chance he would be caught using EPO. As I said, if he's taking an edge, he's doing it 'conventionally'...
The worst thing that could have happened was the stumbled onto those idiots at the meadowlands. Now that is all they care about. EPO, EPO, EPO...
Where were they in 1998?
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  #63  
Old 06-30-2008, 05:16 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Where were they in 1998?

Testing for sublimaze.
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Just more nebulous nonsense from BBB
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  #64  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:04 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
I hear you.. I was making the point that it seemed ridiculous that NJ officials thought there was a chance he would be caught using EPO. As I said, if he's taking an edge, he's doing it 'conventionally'...
Respectfully at some point you will need to clarify your position in racing, because sometimes you seem like a journalist and some of the time you are the leader of the "Good" good ole boys club.

If by conventional you are suggesting pure and simple great horsemanship then I suggest you thought the same about Rick Violette's barn when his horses were in super form.. Both stables are full of good owners with great resources and both stables have two outstanding trainers at the helm. Both stable's above normal success were or are of from anything conventional. In due time the Levine machine will calm down, as what works today doesn't work as well tomorrow. Unfortunately, its an arms race just with undectectable elixirs and there isn't the money or comprehensive agencys to maintain the peace or worse balance of power.
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  #65  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:29 AM
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You need me to clarify 'taking an edge conventionally'? The term is meant to suggest that Levine may well be doing the kinds of things you suggested in terms of taking liberties within the confines of the rules.

As to what I try to do 'in racing', my first instincts are journalistic having been brought through my training early on as a newspaperman. But I will say that the radio show is designed to be entertainment first and foremost. As such, I try to deliver the news and hard factual elements of the game without turning it into an inquisition.

The show is designed to celebrate and promote the game as opposed to work to expose its' most seemly elements and act as an agent provocateur for change. I trust the ability of a good portion of the game's leadership charged with making the necessary adjustments in the industry. I encourage it as best I can, and don't believe I am in a position to act as the arbitor of who is good/bad or right/wrong in every circumstance. I try to bring the facts forward by providing access to as many people in the game as I can reach and let the fan/listener decide for themselves.

Personally, it's not necessarily relevant whether I care for Rick Dutrow, Steve Asmussen, Jess Jackson, etc., or not... But fans want to hear from them when appropriate, and I feel I have an obligation to be in position to bring them to the listeners. I can't do it if they refuse to come on the show.

Andy Serling and I had this discussion last year. If the show tends to make me come off more as Mike Douglas than Mike Wallace, I can live with that...
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A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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  #66  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:38 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
You need me to clarify 'taking an edge conventionally'? The term is meant to suggest that Levine may well be doing the kinds of things you suggested in terms of taking liberties within the confines of the rules.

As to what I try to do 'in racing', my first instincts are journalistic having been brought through my training early on as a newspaperman. But I will say that the radio show is designed to be entertainment first and foremost. As such, I try to deliver the news and hard factual elements of the game without turning it into an inquisition.

The show is designed to celebrate and promote the game as opposed to work to expose its' most seemly elements and act as an agent provocateur for change. I trust the ability of a good portion of the game's leadership charged with making the necessary adjustments in the industry. I encourage it as best I can, and don't believe I am in a position to act as the arbitor of who is good/bad or right/wrong in every circumstance. I try to bring the facts forward by providing access to as many people in the game as I can reach and let the fan/listener decide for themselves.

Personally, it's not necessarily relevant whether I care for Rick Dutrow, Steve Asmussen, Jess Jackson, etc., or not... But fans want to hear from them when appropriate, and I feel I have an obligation to be in position to bring them to the listeners. I can't do it if they refuse to come on the show.

Andy Serling and I had this discussion last year. If the show tends to make me come off more as Mike Douglas than Mike Wallace, I can live with that...

Actually closer to Merv..lol

I understand... it's hard to do both well..
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  #67  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Actually closer to Merv.. lol..
OK.. now I'm annoyed...
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A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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  #68  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
If the show tends to make me come off more as Mike Douglas than Mike Wallace, I can live with that...


Classic...
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  #69  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:31 AM
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Not that Steve needs me coming to his defense, but he is in a much more delicate position than most of us, the results have come back and they have declared Levine was clean as far as his N.J barn is concerned. He has to go on the what the results say. As a show host the adjective "alledgedly" will only get you so far, but unlike most of us that can look at the negative tests to much chagrin I don't think it's Steve's job to tell us that. Anyone with half a brain of horseracing knowledge can draw their own conclusions.
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  #70  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Not that Steve needs me coming to his defense, but he is in a much more delicate position than most of us, the results have come back and they have declared Levine was clean as far as his N.J barn is concerned. He has to go on the what the results say. As a show host the adjective "alledgedly" will only get you so far, but unlike most of us that can look at the negative tests to much chagrin I don't think it's Steve's job to tell us that. Anyone with half a brain of horseracing knowledge can draw their own conclusions.
So based upon this I can conclude that Michael Ivarone doesn't have half a brain since he acts shocked and appalled when his trainers test positive ...
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  #71  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jms62
So based upon this I can conclude that Michael Ivarone doesn't have half a brain since he acts shocked and appalled when his trainers test positive ...
Or he deserves an Oscar nomination... Best supporting owner..
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  #72  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:47 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Not that Steve needs me coming to his defense, but he is in a much more delicate position than most of us, the results have come back and they have declared Levine was clean as far as his N.J barn is concerned. He has to go on the what the results say. As a show host the adjective "alledgedly" will only get you so far, but unlike most of us that can look at the negative tests to much chagrin I don't think it's Steve's job to tell us that. Anyone with half a brain of horseracing knowledge can draw their own conclusions.
I really wasn't attacking Steve I have no reason to do as such. I am hoping for a racing advocate to come about in the media who has the current exposure that Steve has on ATRAB. A strong daily voice is powerful, racing sure could use a public advocate.. If Steve wishes to run his show as such he is certainly entitled to. Racing needs some help and sometimes media can be a powerful vehicle!

We need a person who is willing to piss off the ole boy network, not take peoples BS without knowledgible rebuttle and truly be an advocate for bettors and horses.. You know like .............
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  #73  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
I really wasn't attacking Steve I have no reason to do as such. I am hoping for a racing advocate to come about in the media who has the current exposure that Steve has on ATRAB. A strong daily voice is powerful, racing sure could use a public advocate.. If Steve wishes to run his show as such he is certainly entitled to. Racing needs some help and sometimes media can be a powerful vehicle!

We need a person who is willing to piss off the ole boy network, not take peoples BS without knowledgible rebuttle and truly be an advocate for bettors and horses.. You know like .............
I hear you, I don't disagree in principle. But as a public figure you have to understand you really have to tightrope facts from opinions. It's a slippery slope.
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  #74  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:51 AM
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Steve would lose quite a few guests if he took that route...
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  #75  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:54 AM
parsixfarms parsixfarms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62
Steve would lose quite a few guests if he took that route...
And they would lose a platform on which to promote themselves. That being said, I fully appreciate Steve's position.
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  #76  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62
Steve would lose quite a few guests if he took that route...
That is why we have Mr. Serling, he has an opinion and isn't afraid to say what is on his mind.
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  #77  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:59 AM
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jms62 jms62 is offline
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I'm not sure I have ever heard Andy call out a trainer as being dirty, of course I can be wrong. He too as a journalist has to be careful with what bridges he nukes...
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  #78  
Old 07-01-2008, 10:01 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
That is why we have Mr. Serling, he has an opinion and isn't afraid to say what is on his mind.
yep he certainly fits the bill
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  #79  
Old 07-01-2008, 10:07 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62
I'm not sure I have ever heard Andy call out a trainer as being dirty, of course I can be wrong. He too as a journalist has to be careful with what bridges he nukes...
Journalists cross bridges they need not nuke them. Tim Russet didn't nuke bridges but he exposed BS and demanded integrity from his guests. I would rather listen to a "meet the press" format on racing then the current listens available.. But that is just me and I don't suggest there is anything wrong with Steve's show as it is what it is...Basically late night TV radio without the top ten list.. which is HIGHLY entertaining for many and serves as an good listen.
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  #80  
Old 07-01-2008, 04:48 PM
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Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Journalists cross bridges they need not nuke them. Tim Russet didn't nuke bridges but he exposed BS and demanded integrity from his guests. I would rather listen to a "meet the press" format on racing then the current listens available.. But that is just me and I don't suggest there is anything wrong with Steve's show as it is what it is...Basically late night TV radio without the top ten list.. which is HIGHLY entertaining for many and serves as an good listen.
I could never put my finger on what that show was missing until now.....


A BAND!!!
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