CushionTrack: "We'll fix or replace SA surface"

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You make a valid point, to a certain extent, but we do foot the bill. I am all for backstretch worker's rights, and wish they were all treated well, but that doesn't mean I will allow someone who works on the backstretch to insist that their job does not depend on bettors. That is simply not true. Without us wagering there is no show.....period.

I think it would be unfortunate if people felt that the backstretch community does not care a great deal about the bettors. Many are acutely aware that without us there's no game to play. Honu is not aware of this. She claims that there would be racing on phantom estates and she would be employed by some Lord of the Manor in his pursuit to best his fellow bon vivants.

I don't agree.

You see, you are still carrying on a one-sided argument. You are making statements like "we do foot the bill" and "Honu is not aware of this." Excuse me?

Honu wrote this earlier in the thread: "I know that gambling is what fuels most of the sport...". So what is she not aware of? She went on to add, "... but let me tell you something , if they just raced for a trophy and bragging rights in the Kentucky Derby there would still be horses running in it ." I think that is correct. There wouldn't be much other racing, but there would probably still be a Triple Crown. I don't think Honu ever suggested that the sport would be anything like it is today without the bettors.

I don't think Honu ever stated that she would still have a job if betting disappeared from the sport. But you are suggesting she did say that.

I'm not taking sides in this. You are both guilty of personal attacks and putting words in the mouth of the other during this thread.

--Dunbar

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

By the way Mr. BTW, wouldnt you be out of a job without the bettors? (just trying to bring you to closer together here)

In all ways.

This is why I believe that everyone that works within the industry is in it together.

[Payson Dave]

Far be for me to jump into the middle of a perfectly good pissing match....but if you take a re-look at post 6 of this thread it does seem highly likely that KG was referring to the CHRB... and not the horsemen

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Honu

And you better get a grip with the fact that NO ONE is thinking about you when they lead a horse over for a race , Im sorry if this hurts your feelings but it is what it is , its all about the horse and hitting the wire in front .

I can assure you that Nick Zito thinks about this. As for others? I don't know for sure....but I know that Nick does.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Fortunately for her.

Merry Christmas FFACE

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Any track where In Summation can beat Idiot Proof is certainly nothing like dirt.

what is the excuse for Idiot Proof getting beat by Barbeque Eddie? I don't think its the surface because he beat Barbeque Eddie on the same surface in the Ancient Title.

[Rootdog1]

Agreed...Idiot Proof is a paper tiger.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what is the excuse for Idiot Proof getting beat by Barbeque Eddie? I don't think its the surface because he beat Barbeque Eddie on the same surface in the Ancient Title.

There is no doubt that Idiot Proof isn't the same horse on the synthetics that he is on the dirt and that horses like In Summation who busted out on the dirt and had to go the turf are now moving up big time cause of the synthetic surfaces. You aren't going to tell me a horse that just ran 2nd in the BC Sprint as a 3yo should be losing to the likes of In Summation and Barbeque Eddie on a surface that is a dirt replacement, are you?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is no doubt that Idiot Proof isn't the same horse on the synthetics that he is on the dirt and that horses like In Summation who busted out on the dirt and had to go the turf are now moving up big time cause of the synthetic surfaces. You aren't going to tell me a horse that just ran 2nd in the BC Sprint as a 3yo should be losing to the likes of In Summation and Barbeque Eddie on a surface that is a dirt replacement, are you?

i don't think Proof was 100% cranked here, the race set up extremely well for In Summation. Idiot Proof has won a graded stakes over a synethic, I think, it was at Hollywood

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

i don't think Proof was 100% cranked here, the race set up extremely well for In Summation. Idiot Proof has won a graded stakes over a synethic, I think, it was at Hollywood

Santa Anita, the Ancient Title over Greg's Gold and the immortal BBQ Eddie. I'm not saying the horse can't run on synthetics at all. All I'm saying is the gap between him and In Summation and BBQ is nothing on the cushion and would be open lengths on the dirt.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is no doubt that Idiot Proof isn't the same horse on the synthetics that he is on the dirt and that horses like In Summation who busted out on the dirt and had to go the turf are now moving up big time cause of the synthetic surfaces. You aren't going to tell me a horse that just ran 2nd in the BC Sprint as a 3yo should be losing to the likes of In Summation and Barbeque Eddie on a surface that is a dirt replacement, are you?

Idiot Proof is over rated. He has two wins on synthetic and 3 on dirt.
I just don't see where he should be rated as some kind of dirt monster brought low by the surface. Maybe he isn't as good on synthetic as dirt, so what?

In Summation is more of a bust on turf, not dirt. His turf record is 6 starts, 1 win, 3 places. His dirt record is 9 starts, 4 wins, 1 place. His synthetic record is 4 starts, 3 wins, 1 place. He is actually shown to be quite versatile on any surface.

The BC sprint is a toss in my mind, and not indicative of much. Midnite Lute has also confirmed that.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I can assure you that Nick Zito thinks about this. As for others? I don't know for sure....but I know that Nick does.

Of course he does he bets! So let me get this right Zito is saddling Sun King for a 10f grade one that he knows isn't his best distance and he is concerned that the bettors are being well represented by his training methods.. What a guy.. Or better yet maybe this is one of he dicussions with LaPenta..Bob War Pass is really ready to go I think the bettors are right making him a 3/5 favorite..

You know I admire and respect Zito but I think the horses best interest and his owners best interest have to out weigh the gamblers.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Scav

i don't think Proof was 100% cranked here, the race set up extremely well for In Summation. Idiot Proof has won a graded stakes over a synethic, I think, it was at Hollywood

I don't know if it was that he wasn't cranked up. He probably just didn't come out of the BC Sprint very well. When you run on a sloppy, sealed track like that, there is probably only a 50% chance at best that you will come out of the race without some type of minor injury. When you run your horse in the slop, you are basically playing russian roulette.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Midnight Lute confirmed the sprint is a throwout by running second in the Cigar Mile to Daaher? Am I reading this right? I don't get it.

Midnight Lute is another horse who probably did not come out of the race 100%. He didn't look like the same horse in the Cigar Mile. His BC sprint win was certainly no fluke. That was not the first time he ran a race like that. He ran just as huge in the Forego.

I'm telling you, when you run in the slop you are very lucky if you come out of the race in one piece.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cardus

How did the Cushion Track installer and Magna not consider SoCal's January and February typical rainfall when figuring the synthetic composition?

This is mind boggling.

They did consider it. The Cusion Track at Hollywood Park drains beautifully. It can rain an inch and you can't even tell that it rained. The track looks perfect. They put in a very similar drainage system at Santa Anita. The problem is that they used a slightly different type of composition for the surface and that is what has caused the problems. They used a different type of sand and some of the other ingredients were slightly different.

They obviously did not do proper testing or they would have realized that the composition they planned to install does not drain properly.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cardus

How did the Cushion Track installer and Magna not consider SoCal's January and February typical rainfall when figuring the synthetic composition?

This is mind boggling.

for some reason they used more sand, and it clogged up the drainage system.
pretty dumb that they weren't more careful.

[Riot]

They obviously did not do proper testing or they would have realized that the composition they planned to install does not drain properly

Thus it amazes me that the manufacturer didn't install a furlong of it, water the hell out of it, and see what happened (as Keeneland did during their installation of Polytrack).

[Riot]

If gamblers were gone, there would still be horse racing. It would just be markedly privatized back into a hobby of the wealthy. Associations of wealthy owners would own a few tracks, they would still breed, sell and race (albeit on a much smaller scale). Employed trainers would be those few working for private farms and private racing stables, rather than public. Purses would be funded by entry fees and subscription from patrons.

If slots were still allowed, however, we might still have Mountaineer running year-round.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Honu

I have a bad attitude? Whatever........the horseman are who are suffering thru this demise

The same horsemen who have made drugs such a major factor in racing? Maybe if the horsemen didn't rely on illicit elixirs, none of this nonsense about "healing the horses" would've come up in the first place.

Before Turfway debuted their Polytrack in 2005, NOBODY said a word about diminishing injuries. The only thing that was mentioned was not having the cancellations that racing in Cincinnati in January can bring. It wasn't until the first meet was over that Turfway management started mentioning the injuries being down. Then TVG ran with it as did the rest of media. Turfway is one track that had a legitimate reason to install a synthetic surface; these California tracks were ignorant to rush into it.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by JJP

The same horsemen who have made drugs such a major factor in racing? Maybe if the horsemen didn't rely on illicit elixirs, none of this nonsense about "healing the horses" would've come up in the first place.

Before Turfway debuted their Polytrack in 2005, NOBODY said a word about diminishing injuries. The only thing that was mentioned was not having the cancellations that racing in Cincinnati in January can bring. It wasn't until the first meet was over that Turfway management started mentioning the injuries being down. Then TVG ran with it as did the rest of media. Turfway is one track that had a legitimate reason to install a synthetic surface; these California tracks were ignorant to rush into it.

I would be careful here JJP, throwing drugs into this conversation is going to be gasoline, and their is only a few that are doing it in regards to drugs

Hono's employer is one that is most defintely not doing it in my opinion