Bernardini probably done...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Balletto

Grade 1 winner... but I thought they'd keep him in training as well. Little puzzled with this one.

Obviously I'm a aware he is a ( double ) Grade 1 winner. However, his three races this year, followed by his virtual easing in the BC, makes his retirement pretty ridiculous. The good news is they have plenty of mares to breed to him. I have a sneaky suspicion few of their good ones will however.

[GenuineRisk]

Gambling is what drives racing, not breeding. If all the gamblers who bet on the ponies decided to spend their dollars on other sports, breeding would have nothing to breed for.

Originally Posted by Cardus

"Anything wild has come from domesticated stock at one time?" You meant the opposite, right?

No, any "wild herd" of horses in the world today have come from domesticated stock. There are no genetically true wild horses left. I was shocked to learn this as well. Of course, domesticated animals came from wild stock long ago, but they died out while the domesticated animals flourished.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, they could still do quite well with Bernardini financially and still race him next season. Certainly you realize the two are not mutually exclusive.

Second of all, it is you that is pulling the " what's best for the horse " argument. I am simply the one showing it as hypocritical.

And, of course, as the supposed daughter of owners you are certainly are in no position to make your snide little digs in the final paragraph. Frankly, I have " entered the sport ". I'm sure, in fact, I have given quite a bit more to it than you have. But, hey, thanks for the advice. Next time you choose to discuss racing you might want to stick to the issues and leave the personal advice out.

My intentions were not to be "snide". I've just learned countless times that the fans mentality are usually quite different than the owners. And nothing was directed at you personally. It was a general statement about the financial dedication this sport needs from its owners.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Obviously I'm a aware he is a ( double ) Grade 1 winner. However, his three races this year, followed by his virtual easing in the BC, makes his retirement pretty ridiculous. The good news is they have plenty of mares to breed to him. I have a sneaky suspicion few of their good ones will however.

Hey, we're in complete agreeance with this. He's more accomplished than many of his peers, but in reality, thats not saying much. But "obviously", who's being a little snide now???

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Gambling is what drives racing, not breeding. If all the gamblers who bet on the ponies decided to spend their dollars on other sports, breeding would have nothing to breed for.

A case can be made for that.. as it can for breeding, racing, etc. Its why I said its all a symbiotic relationship. If one side falters badly, the others will follow soon. But yes, gambling drives a lot of the money.... that inturn drives the racing and in the breeding... cycle.....

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Balletto

A case can be made for that.. as it can for breeding, racing, etc. Its why I said its all a symbiotic relationship. If one side falters badly, the others will follow soon. But yes, gambling drives a lot of the money.... that inturn drives the racing and in the breeding... cycle.....

I respectfully disagree. If every Thoroughbred breeding operation in the country went out of business tonight and every Thoroughbred horse dropped dead at the same time, Aqueduct would have donkey races running within two weeks and people would wager on them. People are willing to bet which raindrop will roll down a window first. Gambling is running the show.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Balletto

A case can be made for that.. as it can for breeding, racing, etc. Its why I said its all a symbiotic relationship. If one side falters badly, the others will follow soon. But yes, gambling drives a lot of the money.... that inturn drives the racing and in the breeding... cycle.....

If the breeding bubble burst the owners would certainly suffer by reduced purses and lack of breeding value but the racing quality would actually improve. Seems breeding is more parasitic to racing than symbiotic to me.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Gambling is what drives racing, not breeding. If all the gamblers who bet on the ponies decided to spend their dollars on other sports, breeding would have nothing to breed for.

Thank you.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Balletto

My intentions were not to be "snide". I've just learned countless times that the fans mentality are usually quite different than the owners. And nothing was directed at you personally. It was a general statement about the financial dedication this sport needs from its owners.

No disrespect to the owners, as I understand well their financial dedication to the game, but it is the bettors' " financial dedication " to this game that keeps it going.

I think the argument in this particular situation exists because there was a feeling, obviously unjustified, that the Sheik's interests in the game could transcend the average owner's, in that he was one of very few that could afford to race an extra year, as the lure of instant dollars was not an issue for him. I absolutely agree if " regular " people, like probably just about anybody here, owned a horse and was in a life changing situation which necessitated a retirement, that situation would be understandable.

However, I agree with the posters who suggested the breeding end of the game is hurting it from a fan's perspective, and the general hope was that the Sheik would be immune to that. Obviously he is not.

Look, I'm a bettor, I am liable to bet as much on a Thursday in February as BC Day. Personally none of this really affects me. However, I like seeing good horses racing, and I am heartened by enthusiasm for the game, and I find the rush to the breeding shed depressing. Wouldn't a showdown in the Met Mile between Henny Hughes and Discreet Cat have been exciting?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Balletto

Hey, we're in complete agreeance with this. He's more accomplished than many of his peers, but in reality, thats not saying much. But "obviously", who's being a little snide now???

I'm admittedly snide. I don't like when others try to steal my trademark.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No disrespect to the owners, as I understand well their financial dedication to the game, but it is the bettors' " financial dedication " to this game that keeps it going.

I think the argument in this particular situation exists because there was a feeling, obviously unjustified, that the Sheik's interests in the game could transcend the average owner's, in that he was one of very few that could afford to race an extra year, as the lure of instant dollars was not an issue for him. I absolutely agree if " regular " people, like probably just about anybody here, owned a horse and was in a life changing situation which necessitated a retirement, that situation would be understandable.

However, I agree with the posters who suggested the breeding end of the game is hurting it from a fan's perspective, and the general hope was that the Sheik would be immune to that. Obviously he is not.

Look, I'm a bettor, I am liable to bet as much on a Thursday in February as BC Day. Personally none of this really affects me. However, I like seeing good horses racing, and I am heartened by enthusiasm for the game, and I find the rush to the breeding shed depressing. Wouldn't a showdown in the Met Mile between Henny Hughes and Discreet Cat have been exciting?

Maybe he's just anxious to see the "Bernie's Babies" hit the track.

Maybe the cost to insure him ($3 mil? $5 mil?) for a year without a realistic chance to earn that much on the track coupled with the chance of a catastrophic breakdown plus the desire to get him going as a stallion makes it a more palatable decision.

It ain't likely about the money. Probably the chance of him getting injured or worse is more important to the owner than it would be to most other people.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Shake Mo wants a foundation dirt sire for his attempt to win as many American classics and Triple Crowns as he can, and now he has the foundation. Simple.

What irks me is the notion of Shake Mo as a "sportsman" and lover of the breed.

looks like something i posted MONTHS ago about this very thing happening.
but good news, invasor remains in training.
everyone has been calling the wrong sheik a sportsman.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Henny Hughes has been retired??????????? That's insane. What has he proven?

They're the worst!

oh, thought you knew that too. i didn't even snort when i read the article. no surprise at all. now, had they both stayed on the track, i'd have had a heart attack....

but hey, we have discreet cat to look forward to next year. maybe he can run half a dozen times over the course of the year and go to stud too. hot dog!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Balletto

So, I guess anyone with seemingly unlimited financial means should not look at anything from a business perspective. They should just spend and not worry about attempting to possibly break even or succeed if something is a business. Then again, im sure its easier said than done when its not your money.

And your whole "horse racing is cruel" cry at countering what I originally stated is rather old. Granted, you were playing Devil's Advocate, but give me a break. If you wanted to sensationalize the sport, why stop there? Lets all hunt our food because lord knows, we shouldnt breed our food.

Here's an interesting tidbit for you... In a genetics class we learned that horses would be extinct right now if it wasnt for human prevention/interaction. There is not one truly wild herd of horses left on the planet. Anything that is wild has come from domesticated stock at one time or another. The horse, as we know it, is not an animal that evolution has been kind to... its why these animals, especially thoroughbreds, seem to find ways to kill themselves.

Regardless, throw your fits, bash the sport, claim you're a fan of the racing and not the breeding, but its a symbiotic relationship that is always seeking a balance. Right now, the balance is in a good financial state... even though most claim its not kind to fans. In that case, find a gelding and bat your eyes away... or better yet, enter the sport so we can all comment on your decisions as an owner, I mean, the sport is built around us, right???

c'mon balletto...the guy spent almost $60 million at ONE sale alone. doesn't sound like he's trying to break even, or is concerned in any way about being in the black years' end if he's tossing around that kind of money.

[blackthroatedwind]

I am honestly shocked about Henny Hughes. How could they retire him. He has barely raced and accomplished very little for a sprinter. I don't know a lot about breeding but I fail to see his appeal.

Maybe they just wanted to prove conclusively that they have no interest in racing.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Maybe he's just anxious to see the "Bernie's Babies" hit the track.

Maybe the cost to insure him ($3 mil? $5 mil?) for a year without a realistic chance to earn that much on the track coupled with the chance of a catastrophic breakdown plus the desire to get him going as a stallion makes it a more palatable decision.

It ain't likely about the money. Probably the chance of him getting injured or worse is more important to the owner than it would be to most other people.

if a lumberman can dig deep to run slew at four...you really think a guy tossing money around like he grew it in his backyard can't?? then there's the meyerhoffs who ran the bid at four. silver charm, real quiet, they ran at four...but of course when horses stick around, it's because the sales #'s are down. there is a direct correlation between the breeding market and whether a horse sticks around to run or not....right now, $ is flying thru the air at a dizzying rate at these sales....everyone is trying to pile on. and as long as these guys with oil money to burn are willing to indulge themselves, it'll continue. as will premature retirements.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Shouldn't "SentToStud" have started this thread?

been really busy tending to the herd of goats, etc... but thanks for the shout out.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I am honestly shocked about Henny Hughes. How could they retire him. He has barely raced and accomplished very little for a sprinter. I don't know a lot about breeding but I fail to see his appeal.

Maybe they just wanted to prove conclusively that they have no interest in racing.

trying to latch onto the hennessy/jo'burg wagon....