Fee impasse threatening signal distribution (UPDATE: Deal in place)

[jnunan4759]

One other thing that is particularly grating. Since this started PARX has still been selling full Equibase programs and has even increased the prices. DRF was increased to $8.00. I heard they just started to sell a limited 3-track Equibase program, but I'm not sure what that includes, or the price. It's just a few bucks, but grating.

What I've been hearing more and more from other people is that they are seeking alternatives. From what I was told, it's restricted within a certain distance from a track to use a an ADW. For me, I'm limited to PARX and Harrah's Chester. However, that's a PA Racing Commission regulation (part of the Horse Racing Act) and really only is a restriction for the ADW's, so that they won't establish accounts for certain zip codes. For regular people, from what I've been told by a legal source, It's not against any law for someone to use, say, their parent's address to set up and ADW account if they are outside the restrictions. As long as you give a valid SS#, it doesn't violate any law. So I know a bunch of people are doing this.

Those customers may well never come back, especially if they like the new ADW.

The more I learn of this, the more I don't like.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

One other thing that is particularly grating. Since this started PARX has still been selling full Equibase programs and has even increased the prices. DRF was increased to $8.00. I heard they just started to sell a limited 3-track Equibase program, but I'm not sure what that includes, or the price. It's just a few bucks, but grating.

What I've been hearing more and more from other people is that they are seeking alternatives. From what I was told, it's restricted within a certain distance from a track to use a an ADW. For me, I'm limited to PARX and Harrah's Chester. However, that's a PA Racing Commission regulation (part of the Horse Racing Act) and really only is a restriction for the ADW's, so that they won't establish accounts for certain zip codes. For regular people, from what I've been told by a legal source, It's not against any law for someone to use, say, their parent's address to set up and ADW account if they are outside the restrictions. As long as you give a valid SS#, it doesn't violate any law. So I know a bunch of people are doing this.

Those customers may well never come back, especially if they like the new ADW.

The more I learn of this, the more I don't like.

Can you set up a PABets.com account they are run on TVG platform. NJBETS has none of these issuesso I winder if it is the aame for PABets

[jnunan4759]

I do have that set up and it's just ok. There's no rewards that I can see other than free PP's if you bet $10 on that track, after you've paid $3 for them. Parx is just as bad. You get points for every dollar bet and $1600 points get's you a DRF at the track or OTB. No online PP's.

I usually use the accounts for spot plays, horses that I have in my stable mail.

I like to go out and play the races. Either at Parx or the OTB's. I know people there, we hang out, have lunch, handicap, talk, etc. I pretty much have a rotation throughout the year. Gulfstream, Keenland, Triple Crown tracks, Belmont, SAR, Belmont, KEE, BC, AQU outer. I usually play only one track at a time, however will play a horse somewhere else or a stakes race or something.

But I go crazy sitting at home playing the races the way I do. I think it's from being brought up in the non-simulcast era. We used to go to the track and play the card.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Daruty on ATR Thursday..

Good interview. Heard it on the replay this morning.

Any chance of getting Phil O'Hara on from the Mid-Atlantic Cooperative? I would think he'd have reason to respond (or at least contol the damage) from the now disclosed fact that his organization is the one blocking the signals in spite of Monarch saying that the terms of last year's contract could continue while they negotiated.

Thanks again Steve for all you do for the sport. Without your efforts and interviews like Daruty's appearance, we players would have no information on matters like this and frustration alone would reign.

I do hope they can resolve the dispute before the 3 year old lead up to the Derby starts in earnest.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

I do have that set up and it's just ok. There's no rewards that I can see other than free PP's if you bet $10 on that track, after you've paid $3 for them. Parx is just as bad. You get points for every dollar bet and $1600 points get's you a DRF at the track or OTB. No online PP's.

I usually use the accounts for spot plays, horses that I have in my stable mail.

I like to go out and play the races. Either at Parx or the OTB's. I know people there, we hang out, have lunch, handicap, talk, etc. I pretty much have a rotation throughout the year. Gulfstream, Keenland, Triple Crown tracks, Belmont, SAR, Belmont, KEE, BC, AQU outer. I usually play only one track at a time, however will play a horse somewhere else or a stakes race or something.

But I go crazy sitting at home playing the races the way I do. I think it's from being brought up in the non-simulcast era. We used to go to the track and play the card.

Have you considered betting via ADW though an IPad (or similar tablet device) at the track or OTB? Should not be an issue so long as they offer WiFi.

I do this at the track - haven't been to the windows in ages.

Bonus - you can book the blocked signal action for a cut of the winnings, if one were so industriously inclined

[exactamac]

Turf clubs in Philly still half empty , some turf club management clearly nervous about business being down, they know people are staying home to bet on TVG, twin spires etc. , Parx main seems not to care, rumors flying: from closure of some turf clubs to the disputed signals not returning at all.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by exactamac

Turf clubs in Philly still half empty , some turf club management clearly nervous about business being down, they know people are staying home to bet on TVG, twin spires etc. , Parx main seems not to care, rumors flying: from closure of some turf clubs to the disputed signals not returning at all.

Not a shock since Parx wants to get out of racing altogether. They don't even advertise that they have a racetrack - just the slots. This will give them an excuse to pare down operations.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Not a shock since Parx wants to get out of racing altogether. They don't even advertise that they have a racetrack - just the slots. This will give them an excuse to pare down operations.

Their revenues from gaming are governed by the laws of the Pennsylvania Race Horse Development and Gaming Act. They can't 'pare down operations'. And their simulcast revenue is a raindrop in an ocean anyway. Greenwood is certainly a sad outfit that isn't interested in the racing product, but the Mid-Atlantic/Monarch dispute means little to their business.

Though I can't say what will happen this year with Sal Sinatra gone to Maryland, in their defense, they actively and successfully promoted the PA Derby/Cotillion Day.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Their revenues from gaming are governed by the laws of the Pennsylvania Race Horse Development and Gaming Act. They can't 'pare down operations'. And their simulcast revenue is a raindrop in an ocean anyway. Greenwood is certainly a sad outfit that isn't interested in the racing product, but the Mid-Atlantic/Monarch dispute means little to their business.

Though I can't say what will happen this year with Sal Sinatra gone to Maryland, in their defense, they actively and successfully promoted the PA Derby/Cotillion Day.

Fair enough. They have to keep some racing dates to keep the casino open. But if they were to drop tracks from their simulcast offerings, that really stinks for those in the radius of that "exclusion zone". I doubt the law is written to allow people to go wager Gulfstream somewhere else as an exception to the geographic requirement.

[Kasept]

Had exchange with Scott Daruty over the weekend and he gave a slightly hopeful indication that there's some movement that should lead to a resolution sooner than later.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Had exchange with Scott Daruty over the weekend and he gave a slightly hopeful indication that there's some movement that should lead to a resolution sooner than later.

Thanks Steve. I did not mean to be too sweeping in my criticism of Parx. Their top brass just frustrates the hell out of me with their contempt for the sport. Philly area race fans really get no respect here. It's all "slots slots slots."

Interestingly, we still have a racing review show. "Let's go Racing" that I watch every week and I really like Keith Jones and Dick Gerardi. You would not be able to tell that there is a signal impasse, as they are still showing highlights from Gulfstream and other tracks that no one who patronizes Parx or their Turf Clubs can wager on.

[jnunan4759]

"Let's Go Racing" is an marketing vehicle for the PTHA (Parx Horsemen).

Quote from the web site:

**The Let's Go Racing TV Show was founded by Salvatore Debunda, VP of the PTHA, and Bruce Casella in 1992. Michael Ballezzi, the Executive Director of the PTHA, has since joined the team as Technical Advisor. These three individuals are dedicated to helping promote the sport of thoroughbred racing and the horseman at Philadelphia Park.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

"Let's Go Racing" is an marketing vehicle for the PTHA (Parx Horsemen).

Quote from the web site:

**The Let's Go Racing TV Show was founded by Salvatore Debunda, VP of the PTHA, and Bruce Casella in 1992. Michael Ballezzi, the Executive Director of the PTHA, has since joined the team as Technical Advisor. These three individuals are dedicated to helping promote the sport of thoroughbred racing and the horseman at Philadelphia Park.

It is a good show that I look forward to seeing each week. Just ironic that when they talk about a big mutuel there is no way most people could have had it.

[jnunan4759]

I did happen to see it by accident yesterday prior to the Super Bowl. It's bizarre they never talk about the impasse, because that is what most horseplayers in the area are talking about. I'm sure they are told not to. It's like an elephant in the room. I did think it was kind of insulting showing GP race.

[ne to socal]

Is there anyone who can share what each of the Co-op's members do in terms of handle?

I'd be very curious about:

overall handle as a co-op
handle @ each member facility
handle at live venues vs. no live racing
etc.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Had exchange with Scott Daruty over the weekend and he gave a slightly hopeful indication that there's some movement that should lead to a resolution sooner than later.

Thanks Steve -- I can speak for my fellow Philly area bettors in saying that a quick resolution to this mess is WELCOMED with open arms.

This time of year is when I'm usually brimming with excitement over Gulfstream, Santa Anita, and even a few races out of Tampa. Not this year, quite the opposite actually. The PGA has all of my attention, in it's stead.

[jnunan4759]

I had heard a statement earlier that said it was 1BN/yr, but I'm not sure I believe that. The gray-area is that neither the Co-Op or Monarch are under any requirement to disclose information. Daruty was very frank when on with Steve and I learned more about these deals than ever. I think it's a thing that as long as the state gets it's tax on the bet made, whatever goes on behind the scenes is ok. The racing is not occurring in that state, so the racing commission really has no jurisdiction. It's all part of the interstate wagering federal law. In the state's view, it's just like a sales tax.

I think in the Co-Op, some entities could put several grand a day and some might only account for a couple hundred. I would think at Parx it could account for 100K on a Saturday and much more on a day like Preakness. Maybe more.

I know I go to a Parx OTB and the vast majority of traffic is on other tracks. They've probably seen a slight bump in local Parx handle on Saturday and Sunday due to not offering the Monarch tracks, but what I've seen more is that people just don't go and just don't play with them. Monday and Tuesday are mainly unopposed days, so I expect their handle on those days is relatively unchanged.

I'd be interested to see what effect it has had on TVG. Because of the law, many of the affected players can use a TVG account, PABets, which is Harrah's trotter track ADW. In December, there was only a few I knew who had this type of account. There was no need. You could go to the Parx OTB or bet on phone or internet at any track. Now, everybody I know has this account and uses it.

If I was TVG, I'd try to do anything I could to keep those new customers.

I'd imagine the $ input from the Mid-Atlantic consortium is not enough to cripple Monarch that much. It would be nice to have, but we're not going belly up over it. Otherwise this would be over. I'd say Mid-Atl profits more from Monarch than vice versa. Remember the local horsemen are also involved in this. This will trigger a purse decrease and when that appears (which I think it may have) then all bets are off.

[jnunan4759]

One thing I've learned and Scott Daruty confirmed is that the outrageous takeout in PA is not from the state. I think the maximum State takeout is 2.5% and they takeout 30% on a trifecta at Penn National. Where does that go ? Simple, it's a split between the track and horsemen.

28% of tickets to both. It's easy to see why the Horsemen's officers wear shiny suits and drive around in fancy cars. It's easy to see why they want to be elected every year. Back years ago a trainer would only do that job for a few years. He had to be talked into it. It was a pain in the ass. Now, it must be a moneymaker.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

One thing I've learned and Scott Daruty confirmed is that the outrageous takeout in PA is not from the state. I think the maximum State takeout is 2.5% and they takeout 30% on a trifecta at Penn National. Where does that go ? Simple, it's a split between the track and horsemen.

28% of tickets to both. It's easy to see why the Horsemen's officers wear shiny suits and drive around in fancy cars. It's easy to see why they want to be elected every year. Back years ago a trainer would only do that job for a few years. He had to be talked into it. It was a pain in the ass. Now, it must be a moneymaker.

That is insane! I never knew that and I live in PA and am embarassed that we have the worst takeout in the country on exotic wagers. And if what you are saying is true, it's not even for state revenue.

[joeydb]

Any updates on this?