Is This Finally The End Of Giacomo Goo-Gooism?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Slewstoo

I agree, the first mistake was the "farm manager" taking over his training regime and relieving Zito. The farm manager always came off very arrogantly in all of his interviews making up excuses for Bellamy Road. Don't get me wrong Bellamy has alot of talent but I don't think he was ever as good as the Wood made him appear.

P.S. Alex was clearly the best horse in the race

Slews are you looking for a fight here?

To this day, even now that Bellamy has been taken from him, Zito says he is the most talented horse he had to work with and I think Zito has seen his fair share of talent throught his years. (he is the trainer of Sun King after all )

[Slewstoo]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Slews are you looking for a fight here?

To this day, even now that Bellamy has been taken from him, Zito says he is the most talented horse he had to work with and I think Zito has seen his fair share of talent throught his years. (he is the trainer of Sun King after all )

Hey Sightseek! I've heard Zito say that on numerous occassions too, but remember he did say that Sun King was his favorite!

I see that you're not arguing the fact that Alex was clearly the best horse in the Derby though

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yeah it was definitely that and not the splint he popped.(said with a huge roll of the eyes)

Perhaps....but I highly doubt he would have held up after that pace whether he had a popped splint or not.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Perhaps....but I highly doubt he would have held up after that pace whether he had a popped splint or not.

Thats like saying that perhaps a tennis player may not have won a match whether he pulled a hamstring or not. Do you realize the sheer insanity involved with speculating on what a horse with a popped splint may have done without it? Before yo go out today for a jog, take a big ****ing hammer and bash your shin or ankle with it. Then get back to us after your jog and let us know how it went.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Perhaps....but I highly doubt he would have held up after that pace whether he had a popped splint or not.

I don't agree. I think he would have held on. He finished 7th, injured. Not too bad considering the pace.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well, bash him then.Seems to get you off to bash a horse who has won 2.2 million.Sometimes other horses get their favored 47 type split,and sometimes he gets his 46 split.He is much more interested when they run a 46 split.They aren't stopping yet, when they run a 46,but he is much comfortable rating off that pace.I would say he is a wild card,and always has been.When people's favorite selections for the Derby failed to win,they took their wrath out on the wild card winner,and they will do that long after he is retired.

It never ceases to amaze ... how badly people can miss the point.

No one is bashing Giacomo ... we're just commenting on the goo-goos who were trying to convince us ... despite all evidence to the contrary ... that Giacomo is still a G1 race horse.

If you read my earlier posts on this thread ... and comprehended them ... which I know is asking a lot ... you'd realize that I'm a fervent supporter of Giacomo ... and dearly hope that he's given a decent opportunity as a stallion.

Hey, Steve ... is it possible to add a Remedial Reading Comprehension section to this site?

Sheeeeeesh !!!

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Thats like saying that perhaps a tennis player may not have won a match whether he pulled a hamstring or not. Do you realize the sheer insanity involved with speculating on what a horse with a popped splint may have done without it? Before yo go out today for a jog, take a big ****ing hammer and bash your shin or ankle with it. Then get back to us after your jog and let us know how it went.

Do I need to have several people running in front of me or can I be loose on the lead when I bash myself with a hammer?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Slewstoo

Hey Sightseek! I've heard Zito say that on numerous occassions too, but remember he did say that Sun King was his favorite!

I see that you're not arguing the fact that Alex was clearly the best horse in the Derby though

Alex is more tactical than Bellamy but not as talented.

Feel better now?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

It never ceases to amaze ... how badly people can miss the point.

No one is bashing Giacomo ... we're just commenting on the goo-goos who were trying to convince us ... despite all evidence to the contrary ... that Giacomo is still a G1 race horse.

If you read my earlier posts on this thread ... and comprehended them ... which I know is asking a lot ... you'd realize that I'm a fervent supporter of Giacomo ... and dearly hope that he's given a decent opportunity as a stallion.

Hey, Steve ... is it possible to add a Remedial Reading Comprehension section to this site?

Sheeeeeesh !!!

I don't see why he couldn't be a grade one winner this year. He won a grade two this year... who's to say he couldn't win a grade one?

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Do I need to have several people running in front of me or can I be loose on the lead when I bash myself with a hammer?

You can be loose if you want, just make sure you hit yourself real ****ing hard and then when you get beat we can all tell how much you suck for losing while limping.

[Slewstoo]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Alex is more tactical than Bellamy but not as talented.

Feel better now?

LOL, is this supposed to be a compromise or something?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You can be loose if you want, just make sure you hit yourself real ****ing hard and then when you get beat we can all tell how much you suck for losing while limping.

Actually Bellamy didn't walk away from the race limping. It was announced a few days later and they had tried to work him. I'd love to use the popped splint as an excuse to since I absolutely adore the horse but all of the horses crumbled at the finish, except Giacomo and Closing Arguement. Stupid Coolmoore...............

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Actually Bellamy didn't walk away from the race limping. It was announced a few days later and they had tried to work him. I'd love to use the popped splint as an excuse to since I absolutely adore the horse but all of the horses crumbled at the finish, except Giacomo and Closing Arguement. Stupid Coolmoore...............

So now my friend Nick is a liar and you know more than he does about the horse? I will let him know!!!

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You can be loose if you want, just make sure you hit yourself real ****ing hard and then when you get beat we can all tell how much you suck for losing while limping.

You can believe what you want. Considering his connections believe the popped splint was from before the Derby I think it is quite the coincidence that he was able to run a mile in 1:36 before it started to bother him. Seems more likely to me that he just got tired. Certainly the splint didn't help him but even Zito says he thinks the lack of seasoning on the horse was as big a factor in his Derby performance as the popped splint. His Beyer in the Derby was a 90, only six points lower than his figure two races back and higher than any of his previous figures.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I don't see why he couldn't be a grade one winner this year. He won a grade two this year... who's to say he couldn't win a grade one?

I am. .

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You can believe what you want. Considering his connections believe the popped splint was from before the Derby I think it is quite the coincidence that he was able to run a mile in 1:36 before it started to bother him. Seems more likely to me that he just got tired. Certainly the splint didn't help him but even Zito says he thinks the lack of seasoning on the horse was as big a factor in his Derby performance as the popped splint. His Beyer in the Derby was a 90, only six points lower than his figure two races back and higher than any of his previous figures.

Beyers are bologna. What was his rag sheet number?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

So now my friend Nick is a liar and you know more than he does about the horse? I will let him know!!!

No one called him a liar and actually I've discussed the horse with him as well.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

No one called him a liar and actually I've discussed the horse with him as well.

He thinks the horse was incredible and that the pace was not his undoing. The splint was. His race in the Travers was the most incredible thing I have ever seen. He only had 4 works for the race off that injury layoff and at the beginning of the month he didn't even think he could make the Kings Bishop with him. He was asked to run him in the Travers and fought back in the lane even after he was passed and actually galloped out ahead of Flower Alley after the wire. Its one of the most incredible efforts I ever saw, EVER. 4 breezes after an injury layoff and he fights the whole way and gallops out ahead of the winner and crushes Roman Ruler who came back in his next start and gave RHT all he could handle.
His Travers was far more incredible than his Wood was and I guess it will never truly be appreciated.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

He thinks the horse was incredible and that the pace was not his undoing. The splint was. His race in the Travers was the most incredible thing I have ever seen. He only had 4 works for the race off that injury layoff and at the beginning of the month he didn't even think he could make the Kings Bishop with him. He was asked to run him in the Travers and fought back in the lane even after he was passed and actually galloped out ahead of Flower Alley after the wire. Its one of the most incredible efforts I ever saw, EVER. 4 breezes after an injury layoff and he fights the whole way and gallops out ahead of the winner and crushes Roman Ruler who came back in his next start and gave RHT all he could handle.
His Travers was far more incredible than his Wood was and I guess it will never truly be appreciated.

I was extremely impressed by his Traver's, thought it was the best race he ever ran.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

He thinks the horse was incredible and that the pace was not his undoing. The splint was. His race in the Travers was the most incredible thing I have ever seen. He only had 4 works for the race off that injury layoff and at the beginning of the month he didn't even think he could make the Kings Bishop with him. He was asked to run him in the Travers and fought back in the lane even after he was passed and actually galloped out ahead of Flower Alley after the wire. Its one of the most incredible efforts I ever saw, EVER. 4 breezes after an injury layoff and he fights the whole way and gallops out ahead of the winner and crushes Roman Ruler who came back in his next start and gave RHT all he could handle.
His Travers was far more incredible than his Wood was and I guess it will never truly be appreciated.

This is what the DRF said on the Tuesday following the Derby. I don't think Nick would have tried to work the horse that day if he was limping following the Derby:

Bellamy Road injured

Horsephotos
Bellamy Road, seventh as the favorite in the Derby, could make a return in the summer.
By MARTY McGEE
LOUISVILLE, Ky. - For Nick Zito, injury has been piled onto insult. Already struggling with the disappointment of seeing all five of his starters fare poorly Saturday in the Kentucky Derby, Zito discovered Tuesday morning that the most heralded of that quintet, Bellamy Road, has a popped splint bone that will force the colt to miss the Preakness and Belmont Stakes.
Zito came upon Bellamy Road's relatively minor injury as training wound down at Churchill Downs. Starting around dawn, Bellamy Road had been lightly jogged around the shed row and cooled out fine, but several hours later, Zito noticed that something was amiss. Subsequent X-rays revealed a BB-sized bump on the inside of the left front cannon bone.

"The bad news is he popped a splint," said Zito. "The good news is the X-rays are clean otherwise. There's no fracture, so he'll be back for the big races this summer."

A popped splint, technically known as exostosis, is the result of a slight hemorrhaging around the small splint bone, which is attached to the cannon bone. If neglected, the injury can grow, calcify, and become more painful for the horse. One standard remedy, and the one Zito has chosen for Bellamy Road, is for the affected area to be freeze-fired with liquid nitrogen, so as to arrest its progression. Healing time is relatively brief, in this case about 30 days, and Zito said he is optimistic that Bellamy Road could be back in time for major races such as the Travers Stakes at Saratoga in late August.

The splint injury may help to explain why Bellamy Road finished seventh as the 5-2 favorite in the Derby, which was won by Giacomo, a 50-1 shot.

Even with the setback, Zito still has three horses who might run in the May 21 Preakness at Pimlico: High Fly, Noble Causeway, and Sun King. After how those colts performed in the Derby, though - they ran 10th, 14th, and 15th - Zito is trying his best to put on a happy face.

"It's like your preachers around here say: there's always tomorrow," he said. "Is this disappointing? It's devastating. But we're going to fight through it. I always say, disappointment is inevitable when you have the kind of expectations we had. We had five horses - somebody told me the odds against that were a trillion to one - and we didn't get anything. Of course we're disappointed."

Zito said he is inclined to run one or two of his three remaining contenders in the Preakness and that his final decision will be based on how they train in the next few days. All three went back to the track early Tuesday but did nothing more strenuous than lightly jog.

"Whichever ones I decide on, they'll fly to Baltimore the Wednesday morning before the race," he said. "I definitely want to train them here."

While those three colts stay behind, Bellamy Road and the 30 or so other Zito horses who have been in Kentucky the last several weeks will be shipped to Belmont Park this weekend. Bellamy Road will not have to be turned out.

Zito already has ruled out his fifth Derby starter, Andromeda's Hero, for the Preakness, saying he will point to the Belmont. Andromeda's Hero was eighth in the Derby.


As for arguing the merits of the horse, you're wasting your breath as I probably adore the horse more than anyone out there, but even the best ones lose and not just because of injury.