Leading Trainer / Jockey 2 weeks to go

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In relation to Saratoga.

Turf sprints, NYbreds, condition claimers and maiden claimers dominate most cards.

It wasnt long ago that outside of the 10 or so NYbred races a week you wouldnt see any of these other races at Saratoga.

It has gotten so even 2 yo maiden races on the dirt arent having full fields and we have seen some carded with 6 or 7.

It's really all about horses not running as often as they once did. Basically you're blaming horsemen for not running their horses.

As for Saratoga, they carded a total of 339 races in 2001 .. they carded 359 races last year.

That's 20 more races total.

36 turf sprints were carded last year.

State bred races have become more and more ... because the number of NY bred horses have increased over the last decade ... and connections of NY breds are less likely to wait five or six weeks between starts.

The kind of open allowance races we all like to see carded are now going with 5 horses and featuring lone speed mediocrites like Pitched Perfectly stealing them from horses like Ea (who scratched 3 times earlier in the meet)

As for the 2yo maiden races on the dirt ... the onslought of wet weather all summer long has likely set training of some of them back.

In relation to what's going on at other tracks - especially Southern Cal ones - the quality of racing is going good at Saratoga.

[freddymo]

I give Linda Rice a tremendous amount of credit for molding her barn. She is earning and making a lot of people smile for believing in her ability and eye for talent. If she is able to further develop her operation into a more complex group of horses, time will tell. There isn't anything wrong with knowing what you do well and sticking to it..

Ms Rice may also be using a product that other people aren't using correctly or at all. Hence her horses are running off the friggin screen.

Is she a good trainer OBVIOUSLY, does she know a horse and if that horse will respond to whatever she is using or doing ABSOLUTELY, will these days come to an end as soon as the mob catches up...Doesn't it always!!!

These super stat trainers are just like sex... It feels the best 30 seconds before the whole thing is a blur and over.

[the_fat_man]

To her defense, as long as I've been back in the game (4 or 5 years now), Rice seems to do very well with turf sprinters, so if she had an UNFAIR advantage, I'd think that the others would've gotten some of it by now.

Maybe Rice is just good at this. When others generally aren't. Strange as this may sound in a sport fraught with cheats, maybe she just has a knack for these races.

What makes this particularly noteworthy is that just about every handicapper does poorly at turf sprints. I remember reading last year on his blog that Crist was going to put in extra time looking at these races to see if he could improve with them. I also know Serling doesn't particularly consider them a strength, though he's improved significantly at them.

If these guys can't get an advantage, what hope is there for the rest of us?

[Bobby Fischer]

bitterness helps some cope

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Here's a trivia question ....

Which trainer, with a minimum of at least 20 wins, had the 2nd best win percentage at Saratoga over a ten year span from 1991 to 2000?

Linda Rice was 31-for-102 at Saratoga from '91 to '00 .. and her 30.4% win percentage at the Spa is the highest over that span in an absolute runaway.

If you're looking for a clue on the triva question .. he was Linda Rice like hot at last years Saratoga meet.

[Linny]

Grass sprints are a new thing in NY so NY based public handicappers have been at a bit of a loss where they are concerned. because I also follow mid Atlantic racing regularly (where turf sprinting has been popular for many years) I feel I did pretty well over the last 2 seasons at the Spa.
The grass sprint "division" is very broad but very shallow so horse go from claiming to stakes all the time and at Saratoga, alot of the "class handicappers" could simply not see how Lake and Klesaris could come from Laurel or Delaware with horse last in for $35k and beat NY based allowance stock.
Linda had alot of grass bred sprinters and as soon as they started running them, she started entering. her horses are VERY well gate schooled and the break is all important in turf sprints, esp at 5 1/2, where the turns come up fast.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Linny

Linda had alot of grass bred sprinters and as soon as they started running them, she started entering. her horses are VERY well gate schooled and the break is all important in turf sprints, esp at 5 1/2, where the turns come up fast.

I have my own theories when it comes to turf sprints. IMO, it essentially comes down to footwork. The better the footwork, the better the horse runs.

It would be interesting to discuss this with someone like Rice and get her take on it.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Her numbers this year are better with routers than sprinters on both surfaces.

Turf:

Sprint: 19-for-74 ($2.16 ROI)

Route: 8-for-20 ($5.72 ROI)


Dirt:

Sprint: 26-for-110 ($2.07 ROI)

Route: 5 for 15 ($2.48 ROI)


Total:

Sprint: 45 for 184 (24%) $2.10 ROI

Route: 13-for-35 (37%) $4.33 ROI

Good chemicals.

Rice had Silver Timber running in a turf dash for 25K and Chad Brown picks him up and he wins the Grade III Jaipur in 107:3 three months later. Seems strange that Rice who is the Turf sprint wizard would let this one get away. Maybe she got some of whatever Chad used on Silver Timber for her stock at the Spa.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by SundaySilence

Rice had Silver Timber running in a turf dash for 25K and Chad Brown picks him up and he wins the Grade III Jaipur in 107:3 three months later. Seems strange that Rice who is the Turf sprint wizard would let this one get away. Maybe she got some of whatever Chad used on Silver Timber for her stock at the Spa.

Apparently the horses footwork has blossomed under Mr Brown... Fat Man you kill me with this footwork nonsense.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Apparently the horses footwork has blossomed under Mr Brown... Fat Man you kill me with this footwork nonsense.

Doubtful you have ANY clue what I talking about AND clearly you're not too gifted when it comes to picking winners (or having an opinion in general). Yet, it's always a pleasure reading all your "insider" comments.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Doubtful you have ANY clue what I talking about AND clearly you're not too gifted when it comes to picking winners (or having an opinion in general). Yet, it's always a pleasure reading all your "insider" comments.

Bro you pick winners is 5 horse fields and pat yourself on the back. You think trainers teach fansy footwork. If so maybe Sherriffs could work on Zenyatta..lol You must love that action???? What do you think its friggin ballet lessons in the morning. You think because you can identify a horse with a fuild stride that is willing to change leads on demand that this makes you special.. If it did trainers wouldnt have to train they would simply watch horses and just bet the good movers.. Go watch Easy Goers action vs. Sunday Silience.. to completely different actions yet both extremely fast. Sunday Silience was "nibble" so what he wasn't faster. Maybe Shug should have sent him for more dance lessons.

[Bobby Fischer]

horses for the most part have consistent (correct or incorrect) footwork

injuries or drastic changes in distance/surface/riding style, or even traffic/bumping can throw them off.

logic says that the trainers who are aware of footwork mostly use it for selecting/avoiding horses rather than a whole lot of ballet instruction

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Can we see the Imperial Council demo again?

[the_fat_man]

You got it exactly right: the reason I do so well playing turf sprints is because I'm able to pick out those horses that change leads on demand.
Secret's out.

[gales0678]

well if linda pulls this off it will have to be the greatest upset in the history of horse racing , i mean hear we have a 20 % trainer who is able to double her win percentage during this meet and start a lot less horses than todd or bill , it's like she in a david vs goalith fight here , gotta root for the underdof to bring home the training title

my guess is that a lot of her horses will be good bet againsts back at belmont as they will be very tired from an exhausting 6 weeks in upstate NY

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by gales0678

well if linda pulls this off it will have to be the greatest upset in the history of horse racing

Ah, no.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Ah, no.

training feats , i mean come on drugs , what other trainer can have more wins in 4 weeks at the spa than 3 whole months at belmont , this is a monumental achievement with this stock

11 winners at belmont for 3 months , perhaps 18 or 19 winners in a short 6 week meet upstate , simply stunning , a remarkable turnaround , a feat so difficult to accomplish that it throws drugs stats into total chaos

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Ah, no.

training feats , i mean come on drugs , what other trainer can have more wins in 4 weeks at the spa than 3 whole months at belmont , this is a monumental achievement with this stock

11 winners at belmont for 3 months , perhaps 18 or 19 winners in a short 6 week meet upstate , simply stunning , a remarkable turnaround , a feat so difficult to accomplish that it throws drugs stats into total chaos

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Jamie Ness winning Tampa in 2006-2007 was a far bigger upset.

This years trainers race for Saratoga was so up for grabs - that I didn't bother to throw up my odds for it in a post because it would have taken a lot of time and thought to figure out.