Big Brown has Quarter Crack - Page 3

Strategic Mission · #41 05-25-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Casino Drive has already been the beneficiary of weak competition.

I agree. The 3yr olds that Big Brown and Casino Drive have beaten are very slow horses.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #42 05-25-2008, 10:00 AM

dutrow trying to get price...?

#43 05-25-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Besides the subject horse, what other horses in his close genetic background show a disposition to quarter cracks? Also, has it been proven that a tendency to quarter cracks can be passed along? I know that his line is filled with unsound horses, but I'm not convinced that quarter cracks can be passed along. If anything, Big Brown will have problems passing on any genes at all ... his sire had been documented as having fertility problems and Danzig didn't have the easiest of times either.

Northern Dancer.

It rears its ugly head here and there.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #44 05-25-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Your chances of outright winning our bet just increased by leaps and bounds.

"You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table,
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done."

Danzig · #45 05-25-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

This is exactly my point.
It should decrease his value.

The horse had quarter cracks
before the Derby. It is hurry
up and get there insanity.

i don't understand why anyone thinks he is so valuable a prospect. he's by boundary for crying out loud. quick, name 5 good boundaries, without looking up his progeny records...besides big brown of course. i can think of ONE, pomeroy.

also, it's a rotten crop, and he just happens to be a bit faster than the other slow horses.
eight belles was thought by many to not be a derby horse, wouldn't be able to get 10f, and she ran closer to big brown than any of his other competition ever had.

i can't believe they're going nuts over this horse, or that he's worth 100k.

Strategic Mission · #46 05-25-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

robert clay said that ieah has full say, that they will begin managing the horse after he retires-but we all know that he won't run at four.
no doubt they are in contact, and will make suggestions, but according to current and future owners, ieah is in control for now.
i'd imagine they have a deal somewhat like lawyer ron had regarding if he lost two in a row-no doubt three chimneys has something in there to protect themselves and their investment as best they can.

IEAH would do whatever Clay told them. They aren't going to put $50M at risk. Sure they want to win the TC, but if he lost the Belmont and came up lame, the starting stud fee would plummet. They wouldn't be able to get $25K for him. If he were to retire they could still get plenty.

The problem with this horse is that he hasn't beaten any real quality. If Casino Drive were to beat him then Casino Drive would be worth more than Big Brown. A better pedigree and a win in the head to head.

Remember, with Curlin and Casino Drive added to the market next year, Big Brown is going to have some serious competition for top mares if he is nothing more than an unsound horse that didn't win the triple crown.

King Glorious · #47 05-25-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

robert clay said that ieah has full say, that they will begin managing the horse after he retires-but we all know that he won't run at four.
no doubt they are in contact, and will make suggestions, but according to current and future owners, ieah is in control for now.
i'd imagine they have a deal somewhat like lawyer ron had regarding if he lost two in a row-no doubt three chimneys has something in there to protect themselves and their investment as best they can.

That might be what they say publicly but I don't believe that one bit. What if IEAH decided that since they won't own him anymore and he's not racing next year, to run him in the Belmont and see what happens? If you've decided to invest that much money in something, you absolutely have a huge say in how it's managed until u get it.

Strategic Mission · #48 05-25-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

dutrow trying to get price...?

Dutrow doesn't need to bet the horse any longer. He is going to get plenty from the 2 shares he will probably get. If the horse retires he still gets rich. If the horse breaks down he gets nothing from the insurance.

Danzig · #49 05-25-2008, 10:06 AM

anyone airing the press conference??

mclem10011 · #50 05-25-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

anyone airing the press conference??

Don't see anything on ESPN, even on their news crawl.

Cajungator26 · #51 05-25-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

Northern Dancer.

It rears its ugly head here and there.

Northern Dancer sure didn't pass on his small size ...

I'm still not convinced about what can be passed along and what can't be. Northern Dancer can be seen in the pedigrees of close to 75% of racing thoroughbreds today. Seems pretty hit or miss to me, but I'm not a genetics expert.

Cannon Shell · #52 05-25-2008, 10:09 AM

I first heard about this last night but simply didn't know if it was true so i didn't post.

First of all a quarter crack can be a real issue or it can be a minor issue depending on it's location, including which foot and the severity of the crack.
The toughest thing right now is how much training he has to miss as opposed to the actual injury. Again depending on where it is located you can train in a bar shoe and do just fine. A lot of times the biggest problem is an abcess developing underneath where the patch is located. Proper drainage of the area is critical and sometimes that takes some time, sometimes not.

Secondly, the horse's "value" to IEAH is set already. It can not go up or down because they have already have sold the breeding rights. I dont understand why people dont seem to get that. His stud fee is also pretty much set because it is based more on the exposure the farm has as opposed to what the horse does on the track from now on. If he were to win the Belmont, travers, and BC Classic they may be able to get a little more but if he gets beat in the Belmont they will still be looking for 100k. There may be a clause that the farm pays less if the horse gets beat but there may also be a clause that says the farm pays less if the horse doesnt compete in the Belmont as well.

Danzig · #53 05-25-2008, 10:11 AM

yeah, i checked them and both horse racing networks...nothing.

pointgivenpap · #54 05-25-2008, 10:11 AM

I think we have been had, capital otb is not talking about bb being out they are talking about him winning in 2 weeks , no press conference yet

Cannon Shell · #55 05-25-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Besides the subject horse, what other horses in his close genetic background show a disposition to quarter cracks? Also, has it been proven that a tendency to quarter cracks can be passed along? I know that his line is filled with unsound horses, but I'm not convinced that quarter cracks can be passed along. If anything, Big Brown will have problems passing on any genes at all ... his sire had been documented as having fertility problems and Danzig didn't have the easiest of times either.

Boundry had terrible feet. I know firsthand because I once helped his blacksmith patch a quartercrack on his foot.

Travis Stone · #56 05-25-2008, 10:12 AM

Leaning towards no... leaning heavily... lots of folks heard whispers yesterday.

Strategic Mission · #57 05-25-2008, 10:15 AM

It might be but foot problems don't mysteriously go away. Especially ones that keep a horse on the sidelines for half a year.

mclem10011 · #58 05-25-2008, 10:16 AM

For breaking down the quarter crack and how to treat it. I wasn't totally sure about all that was involved it's nice to have expert information.

Cajungator26 · #59 05-25-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Boundry had terrible feet. I know firsthand because I once helped his blacksmith patch a quartercrack on his foot.

Thanks ... I was seriously asking because I didn't know. How often do you see quarter cracks in thoroughbreds nowadays, Chuck? Would you say it's more common or is Big Brown in the minority of the breed for having these sorts of hoof problems?

Strategic Mission · #60 05-25-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I first heard about this last night but simply didn't know if it was true so i didn't post.

First of all a quarter crack can be a real issue or it can be a minor issue depending on it's location, including which foot and the severity of the crack.
The toughest thing right now is how much training he has to miss as opposed to the actual injury. Again depending on where it is located you can train in a bar shoe and do just fine. A lot of times the biggest problem is an abcess developing underneath where the patch is located. Proper drainage of the area is critical and sometimes that takes some time, sometimes not.

Secondly, the horse's "value" to IEAH is set already. It can not go up or down because they have already have sold the breeding rights. I dont understand why people dont seem to get that. His stud fee is also pretty much set because it is based more on the exposure the farm has as opposed to what the horse does on the track from now on. If he were to win the Belmont, travers, and BC Classic they may be able to get a little more but if he gets beat in the Belmont they will still be looking for 100k. There may be a clause that the farm pays less if the horse gets beat but there may also be a clause that says the farm pays less if the horse doesnt compete in the Belmont as well.

You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.