Doubling the DWC to 12 million, WOW!!!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

They are creating a bubble economy Scav. The yearlings are selling for a million dollars to a lot of people hoping to be able to sell them to Shiekh Mo for $10 million off a maiden win. They aren't worth that million without the possibility of selling them to Shiekh Mo. A lot of people think that Shiekh Mo stopping spending money in America would be a disaster because the bubble would pop. And yeah, a lot of people in the industry that are thriving off that bubble would take a hit. In the long run though it might be the best thing for the sport for that breeding bubble to burst.

I couldn't agree with you more. But it is NO DIFFERENT then something like the housing economy in the US.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

I couldn't agree with you more. But it is NO DIFFERENT then something like the housing economy in the US.

The big difference is that the entire bubble is being created in large part by one person.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

With what Godolphin and others are doing, how can it ever even out?

Money eventually runs out, it always does, you can NEVER have enough of it, even this guy.

It is no different then say the Beer Industry. Right now in one of my final classes, we have to do a strategic audit on a company, the teacher picked the beer industry. The industry as a whole has 4 major players, and then a bunch of fringe players. It is exactly what is going on here. You have 4 major owners, some people that are trying to get to that level, and then you have the fringe players, that take what they can get.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The big difference is that the entire bubble is being created in large part by one person.

There are 4 people creating that bubble.

I don't want it to look like I am defending this guy, because personally, I can care less what goes on over there, although it does look like a cool place to visit.

I just think that people are missing the big picture, what the industry as a whole is doing.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

There are 4 people creating that bubble.

I don't want it to look like I am defending this guy, because personally, I can care less what goes on over there, although it does look like a cool place to visit.

I just think that people are missing the big picture, what the industry as a whole is doing.

Take the one with the limitless resources out of the picture and the spending by the other three drops dramatically. I think you are underestimating just how much money this guy has and how much the economy of Dubai is making him each year. The money won't run out, he gets virtually none of it from oil anymore so won't even be impacted if we somehow reduced our dependance on oil.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Take the one with the limitless resources out of the picture and the spending by the other three drops dramatically. I think you are underestimating just how much money this guy has and how much the economy of Dubai is making him each year. The money won't run out, he gets virtually none of it from oil anymore so won't even be impacted if we somehow reduced our dependance on oil.

Those three players could easily get together and say you know what ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, but they won't do it because they also have 'a war chest'.

Money is no object to these people, and those people eventually get smoked. And trust me, when you are losing 200 million a year on bad investments, while a drop in the bucket for some, you still don't have 200 million, even if it is just a bathroom to these people...

[SniperSB23]

Sheikh Mo's net worth is $14 billion. He spends $50 million on a horse and it is the equivalent of someone with a net worth of $100,000 spending $357 on a horse. So Shiekh Mo can buy a $50 million stallion easier than I can buy a share in Sumwonlovesyou.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Take the one with the limitless resources out of the picture and the spending by the other three drops dramatically. I think you are underestimating just how much money this guy has and how much the economy of Dubai is making him each year. The money won't run out, he gets virtually none of it from oil anymore so won't even be impacted if we somehow reduced our dependance on oil.

You're right...I understand Scav's analogy, and Team Valor may equal Bud, etc, but Sheik Mo is on an entirely different level than ANY of the other players. He is DRIVEN by his thinking that his people are the rightful heirs and owners of thoroughbreds in general and horse racing in particular. He can rationalize anything by this philosophy. He isn't driven to win this race, or own that horse, he wants to bring the breed and the sport back to where he feels it rightfully belongs. It's almost religous in nature and common sense can't compete with that. Sure, there are some ancillary "good" things and charitable things along the way, and Eurpopean racing benefits as does American on a certain scale. But to say he's just a rich dude buying horses underestimates his end game, IMO.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Sheikh Mo's net worth is $14 billion. He spends $50 million on a horse and it is the equivalent of someone with a net worth of $100,000 spending $357 on a horse. So Shiekh Mo can buy a $50 million stallion easier than I can buy a share in Sumwonlovesyou.

I agree with this. But the point to made that the BREEDING INDUSTRY has caused this. Not just these four jerkoffs

You have a 50k stallion making TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR(400 mares) if he is going to the south hemisphere, how can ANYONE pass that opportunity up with any horse they have. you aint making 20 million with a horse on the race track. ****, a 10k stallion is making TWO MILLION DOLLARS in a year....

UNTIL the economies of scale EVEN OUT between racing/breeding, this **** aint gonna change people

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

I agree with this. But the point to made that the BREEDING INDUSTRY has caused this. Not just these four jerkoffs

You have a 50k stallion making TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR(400 mares) if he is going to the south hemisphere, how can ANYONE pass that opportunity up with any horse they have. you aint making 20 million with a horse on the race track. ****, a 10k stallion is making TWO MILLION DOLLARS in a year....

UNTIL the economies of scale EVEN OUT between racing/breeding, this **** aint gonna change people

As much as we'd like to believe that there will be some magical source of money that comes in and boosts the purses it just isn't going to happen. The only way the racing/breeding scale evens out is if the breeding bubble bursts. That won't happen until Shiekh Mo decides to stop spending money in the US. He has the finances to singlehandedly keep the bubble afloat and is getting some help from the previously mentioned other three groups.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

As much as we'd like to believe that there will be some magical source of money that comes in and boosts the purses it just isn't going to happen. The only way the racing/breeding scale evens out is if the breeding bubble bursts. That won't happen until Shiekh Mo decides to stop spending money in the US. He has the finances to singlehandedly keep the bubble afloat and is getting some help from the previously mentioned other three groups.

I would really have to study the industry to come up with some ideas, but I can tell you right now, one of them would be to continue the consolidation from all sides. Just by looking at it, this industry wastes SO MUCH MONEY. Look at the ADW landscape, at the most, you need 2 of them, so there isn't a monopoly, but you have 4 majors, plus some fringe. These companies run at RAZOR thin margins, now if they consolidated, to two companies, maybe Twin Spires and TVG, margins would increase, thus you can be more competitive.

Look at these BS tracks that are closing and how tracks have to be pulled out by slots. Magna/Churchill really have the RIGHT IDEA in having all these tracks under an organization but the problem is that Magna has a bunch of buffoons in the organization and they get rid of people that demand they are heard.

There are too many tenacles to this industry, and tenacles don't usually live long.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

I would really have to study the industry to come up with some ideas, but I can tell you right now, one of them would be to continue the consolidation from all sides. Just by looking at it, this industry wastes SO MUCH MONEY. Look at the ADW landscape, at the most, you need 2 of them, so there isn't a monopoly, but you have 4 majors, plus some fringe. These companies run at RAZOR thin margins, now if they consolidated, to two companies, maybe Twin Spires and TVG, margins would increase, thus you can be more competitive.

Look at these BS tracks that are closing and how tracks have to be pulled out by slots. Magna/Churchill really have the RIGHT IDEA in having all these tracks under an organization but the problem is that Magna has a bunch of buffoons in the organization and they get rid of people that demand they are heard.

There are too many tenacles to this industry, and tenacles don't usually live long.

Well if you wanted to make me the czar of racing I'd just limit the stallion books by age. If you stood a 3yo his book would be limited to 20 mares. If you stood a 4yo his book would be limited to 60 mares. A 5yo could cover 100 and then 6yos and up would be unlimited. Would provide less incentive to retire a sound horse early.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That is what I thought. You definitely can't get in the race as a 3yo in Gallop Racer.

Which is incredibly frustrating when I have one that I'm pretty sure could win it.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Well if you wanted to make me the czar of racing I'd just limit the stallion books by age. If you stood a 3yo his book would be limited to 20 mares. If you stood a 4yo his book would be limited to 60 mares. A 5yo could cover 100 and then 6yos and up would be unlimited. Would provide less incentive to retire a sound horse early.

a great idea, but will never happen, until horse racing is run like the NFL, and the breeding industry is run like college football.

These morons can't even get medication rules to be the same

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Scav

It is no different then say the Beer Industry. Right now in one of my final classes, we have to do a strategic audit on a company, the teacher picked the beer industry. The industry as a whole has 4 major players, and then a bunch of fringe players. It is exactly what is going on here. You have 4 major owners, some people that are trying to get to that level, and then you have the fringe players, that take what they can get.

I understand where you're going with this, and it was brought up prior, but the top four major players in the beer market don't have unlimited pockets, or charge ridiculously low prices, to eliminte the others. They still, by large, keep the market competitive.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I understand where you're going with this, and it was brought up prior, but the top four major players in the beer market don't have unlimited pockets, or charge ridiculously low prices, to eliminte the others. They still, by large, keep the market competitive.

They constantly buy up smaller breweries, or they essentially force them into a distributation agreement (such as a company like RedHook, which is who I am doing the audit on)

It has been either merge upon merge or just getting consolidated into one of the largers.

I don't have their 10k's handy, and with it being a highly regulated industry, their piss away alot of money on regulators and **** like that, but they aint struggling, their pockets/power, is pretty large

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Scav

They constantly buy up smaller breweries, or they essentially force them into a distributation agreement (such as a company like RedHook, which is who I am doing the audit on)

It has been either merge upon merge or just getting consolidated into one of the largers.

I don't have their 10k's handy, and with it being a highly regulated industry, their piss away alot of money on regulators and **** like that, but they aint struggling, their pockets/power, is pretty large

But that still isn't comparable to Godolphin and racing. Miller and Bud battle for exclusivity at sporting events. You think if Sheik Mo wanted his beer ( I know..bad analogy) at the UC, he wouldn't just quadruple the highest offer from Miller or Bud and we'll all be drinking Mo's Brew? No one else is capable of that in the beer industry, let alone the horse biz. I don't think you have an appreciation for exactly how much money he does have.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

But that still isn't comparable to Godolphin and racing. Miller and Bud battle for exclusivity at sporting events. You think if Sheik Mo wanted his beer ( I know..bad analogy) at the UC, he wouldn't just quadruple the highest offer from Miller or Bud and we'll all be drinking Mo's Brew? No one else is capable of that in the beer industry, let alone the horse biz. I don't think you have an appreciation for exactly how much money he does have.

I probably don't, never really thought on that scale, but some are stating that he is destroying the industry, when in fact, it is the industry that is destroying itself and a few select helping move forward with the destruction, he is the head kingpin in the destruction, but he is doing more for horse racing then the others are, at least from what I can tell. It is very lopsided as far as where the money comes from.

Look, it is a bad cycle, any time you have uneven power, it leads to conversations like this, both hatred and love, opinions from both sides, with essentially no right or wrong, no solution or plan

Sooner or later, it will even out, 10 years ago, he wasn't in the American industry, who is to say that in 10 years he will be around....

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Scav

I probably don't, never really thought on that scale, but some are stating that he is destroying the industry, when in fact, it is the industry that is destroying itself and a few select helping move forward with the destruction, he is the head kingpin in the destruction, but he is doing more for horse racing then the others are, at least from what I can tell. It is very lopsided as far as where the money comes from.

Look, it is a bad cycle, any time you have uneven power, it leads to conversations like this, both hatred and love, opinions from both sides, with essentially no right or wrong, no solution or plan

Sooner or later, it will even out, 10 years ago, he wasn't in the American industry, who is to say that in 10 years he will be around....

That is so true...We can't control what Godolphin does, but we sure are doing a lousy job with the things we can control

[brockguy]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. Invests in breeding? He's not investing, he's maniacally trying to buy ALL the breeding. And of course there will never be a decent 3yo that sees a handicap season as long as Darley continues in their current fashion.

He's also created the disgusting nouveau scenario of the instant purchase of any young horse, or even any decent looking older horse, which will completely ruin the game for fans. Thanks to Mo, you can look forward to a 'Rollerball' style corporate game shortly where Darley, Godolphin, IEAH and Team Valor basically have bought any decent horse. There will be a few holdouts that don't need the money, but most operations or owners will be compelled to sell.

There is in fact a rumor from credible sources that Darley approached IEAH/Pompa Friday night with a $30 million offer for Big Brown. IEAH has a huge war chest and would rather campaign forward at this point, but you can see what you're dealing with. And of course IEAH themselves threw $2MM at Pompa for 75% of Big Brown off the maiden win last summer...

It's not 'sporting', as Sh. Mo's shills love to claim, just as it wasn't sporting to retire Bernadini. And $12MM for a single race is of course just obscene and garish and typical of the way he operates believing that throwing money at everything assures some kind of 'class'. It's actually embarrassing. What pleasure he can take when whichever American-bred juvenile he bought smashes the career earnings record in his 7th career start with $11,000,000 accrued from the World Cup win on the heels of his wins in the previous year's UAE Derby and 3 stages of Mahktoum Challenges...

Steve,

Id like to believe that last years insane spending by the Sheikh was an anomaly and that seeing his Darley stud so far behind main rivals Coolmore, wanted to rectify that and wanted to do it quickly, hence the purchases of Street Sense, Hard Spun, Authorised, Manduro, Admire Moon etc etc..

From the Guardian article below, he's spent roughly one billion pounds (>1Billion Dollars) on Bloodstock in the past year. I just cant for the life of me see that he can continue this aggressive tactic for more than another year.

Looking at it over here, The Sheikh basically owns the top 4 prospects for the 2000 Guineas - New Approach, Ravens Pass, Ibn Kaldoun and Faat Company. They are all splendid stallion prospects but all else things being equal, they are all successful, i cant see them all retiring to stud...

I was just looking back at a thread i started a while back on the top 10 Godolphin horses ever, it is interesting to note that by my estimate 8 of those wouldnt be there if they had retired at 3. In the late 90s early 00's they were great for racing their top older horses through into their 4th 5th a 6th years. But I suppose therein lies the problem. Very few breeders want slowly maturing types that only really became top class as a 4 or 5 year old.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/horserac...269381,00.html