NBA At the Half

Lebron is the most gifted athlete
I have ever seen in basketball.

This does not make him the best
player for a TEAM.

He must improve his outside shot.
He must imrove his decision making
in the final moments. He as a long way
to go. The brain will catch up with the
body because he is a good kid and he
wants very badly to win.

The Spurs shut Lebron down in the playoffs
last year with not an athlete near is capability.
How does that happen? He had not a clue
that he did not need to bring the ball up,
that he needed to be setup. Close game,
he takes the ball and just charges the basket.
Its not that easy against good teams.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Lebron is the most gifted athlete
I have ever seen in basketball.

This does not make him the best
player for a TEAM.

He must improve his outside shot.
He must imrove his decision making
in the final moments. He as a long way
to go. The brain will catch up with the
body because he is a good kid and he
wants very badly to win.

The Spurs shut Lebron down in the playoffs
last year with not an athlete near is capability.
How does that happen? He had not a clue
that he did not need to bring the ball up,
that he needed to be setup. Close game,
he takes the ball and just charges the basket.
Its not that easy against good teams.

You obviously haven't watched him much...or their team much. He rarely if ever makes a bad decision in the final moments. Sometimes he misses or his teammate misses. Sure he can improve his shot. It is not terrible as those like to insinuate. HE has nowhere to go. He is the best already...best in the game late, best early, best clutch, best period.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Well, the average supporting cast could knock out the Pistons because they have LeBron James on their team( LeBron LeBlindness Could Miami fair as well with James? Ah don't thank so.)....that one is quite simple.( You are simpler) It's simple...the "championship" teams usually have multiple go to guys...(Parker, Duncan, Ginobili) (Wade, Shaq) (billups, Wallace, Hamilton, Prince) (Kobe, Shaq). Even Jordan had Pippen and rodman and Kukoc etc. I don't think anyone on the Cavs team is that caliber of player.( Only I never said they were a championship team...just the best in the East last year.) They're not terrible, they're just average.( The best in the East last year.. Detroit was less than average..it seems) Regarding the 3 big rotation, I think if you have one or two that are far superior players perhaps that outweighs the 3...ie San Antonio, Orlando are two to look at...the Lakers with Bynum and Odom as well...the Suns with Stoudamire and Marion. Perhaps Utah with Boozer, Kirelenko, Okur. ( [b]Well that's PERHAPS 5[/B]...I'll overlook your poor judgement and ask how only 5 teams being better in your hollowman mind mkaes the Cavs average?) The 3 do well for cleveland, but many teams have many things at those spots. ( Do well...for Cleveland???)

Sizemore has won a gold glove. Perhaps undeservedly, but he can go get fly balls.

( Yes...I don't see how an outfielder with a GO DIRECTLY TO THIRD BASE arm can win a gg)

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

You obviously haven't watched him much...or their team much. He rarely if ever makes a bad decision in the final moments. Sometimes he misses or his teammate misses. Sure he can improve his shot. It is not terrible as those like to insinuate. HE has nowhere to go. He is the best already...best in the game late, best early, best clutch, best period.

You have watched him play against inferior teams.
I have watched him take absolutely horrific
shots in crunch time and have them go in and draw air.
I watch him try the same thing against good teams
and fail miserably.

Good players and good teams make easy baskets
in crunch time. Get wide open looks or layups.
How many easy baskets did he get against the
Spurs in the last part of the game during the Championship?
How many easy shots did he get the entire series?
Good teams stop opposing teams from doing this
and make it difficult on guys that must have control.

And if you dont think Lebron can improve. You will
never see a ring in Cleveland. Ever.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Lebron is the most gifted athlete
I have ever seen in basketball.

This does not make him the best
player for a TEAM.

He must improve his outside shot.
He must imrove his decision making
in the final moments. He as a long way
to go. The brain will catch up with the
body because he is a good kid and he
wants very badly to win.

The Spurs shut Lebron down in the playoffs
last year with not an athlete near is capability.
How does that happen? He had not a clue
that he did not need to bring the ball up,
that he needed to be setup. Close game,
he takes the ball and just charges the basket.
Its not that easy against good teams.

Almost 100% fine work.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

You obviously haven't watched him much...or their team much. He rarely if ever makes a bad decision in the final moments. Sometimes he misses or his teammate misses. Sure he can improve his shot. It is not terrible as those like to insinuate. HE has nowhere to go. He is the best already...best in the game late, best early, best clutch, best period.

You are truly nuts.


I have seen him dribble away the last 20 seconds!!




I've sseen him take shots throughout the game and in closing that anyone else would get drawn and quartered for! And he doesn't make them...either!!

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

You have watched him play against inferior teams.
I have watched him take absolutely horrific
shots in crunch time and have them go in and draw air.
I watch him try the same thing against good teams
and fail miserably.

Good players and good teams make easy baskets
in crunch time. Get wide open looks or layups.
How many easy baskets did he get against the
Spurs in the last part of the game during the Championship?
How many easy shots did he get the entire series?
Good teams stop opposing teams from doing this
and make it difficult on guys that must have control.

And if you dont think Lebron can improve. You will
never see a ring in Cleveland. Ever.

Almost another 100% fine work.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by pgardn

You have watched him play against inferior teams.
I have watched him take absolutely horrific
shots in crunch time and have them go in and draw air.
I watch him try the same thing against good teams
and fail miserably.

Good players and good teams make easy baskets
in crunch time. Get wide open looks or layups.
How many easy baskets did he get against the
Spurs in the last part of the game during the Championship?
How many easy shots did he get the entire series?
Good teams stop opposing teams from doing this
and make it difficult on guys that must have control.

And if you dont think Lebron can improve. You will
never see a ring in Cleveland. Ever.

I don't know...just in the last two weeks I saw him go into San Antonio and make the game winning shot. I saw him go into LA and make game winning shots and free throws. I saw him go into Portland and make game winning shot...and shot after shot after shot down by 11 with 3 minutes left. Are those all inferior teams he was getting game winning shots against?? What do you people watch?? that's not clutch?? Game winning shots two years ago against Wash in the playoffs...twice?? game 5 against Detroit last year?? Where is the not clutch?? I never said he couldn't get better. I simply said he was already the best player in the game. He is not a good free throw shooter at all. That needs to improve without question.

the finals last year was against a team that outmatched them. Although Larry Hughes is not a good player...he is still a starter and a double digit scorer for them...he could not even take the court the last two games. I saw Tim Duncan have horrendous shooting games in the finals last year. I saw Ginobili have some bad games...I saw both have good games also. The key being that they have 3 stars on their team to compensate. Tell me how many stars the Cavs have on their team?? Despite being outmatched, they lost the last two games by a combined 4 points. I saw LeBron take a 3 pointer to tie in game 3 and get fouled quite obviously in plain view. HE couldnt' get easy baskets that series...I dont' think the Spurs were either judging by their lack of impressive point totals excluding game 2.

So you really think every single basket the Spurs make is a layup and easy look in crunch time?? IF scoring in the NBA were so easy every team would shoot 100 percent all the time because they could simply get easy baskets right?

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here. Perfection in a human basketball player is not attainable which seems to be the standard to which you want this guy to attain. Of course he doesn't succeed every single game and every single moment.

HE doesn't make a team better?? Riddle me this. Before LeBron got to cleveland the franchise had 4 playoff series wins in 35 years of existence. Since LeBron got there they have 4 playoff series wins in the last 2 years. Explain to me how he hasn't made that TEAM better?? And no, I am not buying mr mortimers superb supporting cast theory.

[horseofcourse]

Mr Mortimer...let me explain something to you. An NBA team consists of 12 people...not 4. When I call the Cavs supporting cast average...I am including the 11 other players outside of LeBron...not just Varejao, Z and gooden. those 3 guys have plenty of weaknesses on their own. They are outstanding rebounders of the ball which is why I rank them pretty highly. I do not think much of the other 8 members on the "supporting" cast. I think Gibson is an interesting player who is pretty good but is not a point guard.

So when say I think 4 of the 11 other players are good or above average does not mean the entire cast is very good. I don't think the rest of the team is anything special nor do I think Varejao, Z or Gooden are anything special...just very good rebounders which is important to have on a team.

Thus I have come to the conclusion that the Cavs supporting cast is simply average at best overall. I dont' think they're hideous. They get wins because every single game they play they have the best player on the floor (except when he's hurt of course!).

(and please checking my work on the strikeouts!!! you really need to check nothing that I ever say!! I simply know and facts really do exist, they're really not that hard to find in the internet age are they now??? If I list a fact, really no need to check at all...have at my opinions all you want though....perhaps those may be wrong...but for the most part...not!!)

[Mortimer]

HA!!

Most teams could throw away players 9-12 and no one would notice.

This gem is so you:

I don't think the rest of the team is anything special nor do I think Varejao, Z or Gooden are anything special...just very good rebounders which is important to have on a team.

Unbelievable!


You say James makes them better.....true. ...but do you know in his first year everyone said ( as always with players like this)......we need to build a better team around him...to make him and the team better.




Al I said was stop making it sound like James is the only weapon the poor lowly Cavs have.A player like him will make any team better.....but he needs better players than a .300 team has to make them go somewhere.







Michael Jordan.



Does that help any?

[horseofcourse]

one more illustration pga...in the last two games of the finals yes, LeBron did not get easy shots...his 19 for 53 those two games were not good shooting efforts...but they were better shooting efforts than the shooting those two games of ginobili who went 8 for 26 those games and Tim Duncan who went 10 for 32 those two games. But as I said, they had a 3rd star who shot it 17 for 31 those games. If it is so darn easy to get easy shots how is it that duncan and Ginobili are shooting under 33 percent in two straight games in the NBA finals when great players like that can get easy shots so easily??

And therein lies the difference in the two teams...LeBron HAS to play well for them to win. ginobili and Duncan were able to get bailed out of their horrendous shooting performances by Parker and their abysmal shooting efforts are footnotes and ignored. When LeBron shoots like that is it ignored?? OF course not...all eyes focus toward his whatever problems he has. Of course ignore the 18 assists he dealt out those two games and everything else he attempted to do.

IN the words of Belichick...It is what it is.

[Mortimer]

I think you mentioned ALL of his game winning shots.





He didn't have but ONE until I believe it was last year.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

HA!!

You say James makes them better.....true. ...but do you know in his first year everyone said ( as always with players like this)......we need to build a better team around him...to make him and the team better.

Al I said was stop making it sound like James is the only weapon the poor lowly Cavs have.A player like him will make any team better.....but he needs better players than a .300 team has to make them go somewhere.

Michael Jordan.



Does that help any?

They have some better players than his first year I guess?? They have Hughes?? They had Z back then as well so he hasn't changed...other than being older. They have Gibson and Pavlovic and Varejao.

They have some better players than back then...but simply nothing extraordinary. How does Michael Jordan help?? They have no one like whom Jordan had...(Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman) no one on this current team is close to those players skill wise.

This team is the Miami Heat without James...they are a high lottery team. I'm sorry, but Varejao is not Rodman, Hughes is not Pippen, and Sasha is not Kukoc, nor even remotely close. All I'll say is James is much, much closer to Jordan than those guys are to those guys.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I think you mentioned ALL of his game winning shots.





He didn't have but ONE until I believe it was last year.

He had at least 4 in 2006...game winning long distance jump shots against New Orleans and Charlotte in the regular season and the two game winners in the playoffs against Washington in games 3 and 5. Who can also forget the brilliant last second pass to Varejao against Milwaukee last year for the two point win?? Most likely everyone does forget that one.

(as I said mortimer...you can pretty much find any fact you want to on the internets!!)

[horseofcourse]

Have you grown weary of once again being taken to the shed by Main Course?? The prey has once again taken out the predator.

[Mortimer]

I give up with you already.


You will forever be with the image on the building worshipping pack who believes this player is the sole and only reason Cleveland ever wins a game.

The team could be made into a perenial NBA title game appearance type if they had the guts to trade James in a 2,3 or even 4 way trade. They can't do anything now to get a star point guard because it would take away from the big man strength creating another hole.

James is the way out....they won't get better than they are now and James won't either with his "Chosen One" mindset.

You don't need a "chosen one" to win it all.....just look at Detroit.






The supporting cast needs to get better by being without James and adding other supporters.


Not many can undertsand that......certainly not you.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I give up with you already.


You will forever be with the image on the building worshipping pack who believes this player is the sole and only reason Cleveland ever wins a game.

The team could be made into a perenial NBA title game appearance type if they had the guts to trade James in a 2,3 or even 4 way trade. They can't do anything now to get a star point guard because it would take away from the big man strength creating another hole.

James is the way out....they won't get better than they are now and James won't either with his "Chosen One" mindset.

You don't need a "chosen one" to win it all.....just look at Detroit.






The supporting cast needs to get better by being without James and adding other supporters.


Not many can undertsand that......certainly not you.

NO I can't understand that...in the late 80s...early 90s they (the Cavs) had prototypical players at center, power forward, point guard and played great team ball and never ever got to the finals (with a great 6th man in Hot Rod as well)...because they always ran into the team that had the best player in the game. Sort of similar to what happened to Detroit last year If I am remembering that correctly.

You are certainly not capable of understanding that fact. For once the best player who wears number 23 walks onto the floor in a cleveland uniform. Detroit still has more better players than Cleveland...wasn't enough last year and was darn near not enough in 2006. The Cavs certainly had more better player than Chicago in the late 80s and early 90s...they didn't have number 23 wearing a Chicago uniform now did they?? And because of that, it wasn't enough.

So I believe you are crazy for what you just stated in this post...pure and completely insane...no you don't need a chosen one to win a title...it sure as heck helps however.

I for one prefer to keep James as long as he will stay and try to build around him. They've come a long way...just not quite far enough yet. They still need a bit more help.


mortimer back to the wood shed once again by main course.

[Mortimer]

I said you don't need a superstar to win it wll...and pointed out an example. You point out a counter example....and then agree with me!!?

Your posts are full of contradictions,missnomers,inaccuracies as well as patty-cake- bakers- man nonsense.

James has an overall strong supporting cast...when healthy...it's not a great one. It has a point guard hole.....but it's better than over half the teams in the NBA at the very least.

You keep wanting to ramble. All I said was you give James too much credit and act like he's playing with the Miami gang.Tell me the weak teams you could put him on that would have gone to the finals last year...since you think the Cavs are so lousy other than James.

[GPK]

I miss Larry Bird

[Cannon Shell]

what About Eric Snow?????