CushionTrack: "We'll fix or replace SA surface"

[King Glorious]

The "they" I was referring to was the CHRB that mandated this stuff and the tracks that didn't fight hard against it but instead just gave in and rushed to put this stuff in without the proper studies being done.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Honu

I have a bad attitude? Whatever........the horseman are who are suffering thru this demise , the track still plays fast , a handicapper can still use speed in his fugures . I work for a trainer , not a gambler , my concern is with preparing the horses for the races so people can come and do what they do.
The owners that employ my boss are very wealthy and even when they dont win races for long stretches at a time they still have plenty of money to spend , you think B. Wayne Hughes needs purse money to stay in the game ? think again , he doesnt. I know that gambling is what fuels most of the sport , but let me tell you something , if they just raced for a trophy and bragging rights in the Kentucky Derby there would still be horses running in it .

The voice of reason

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Honu

Im self centered? What about you , you think its ok that someone says they get what they deserve when the track is messed up with no regard to the horses and how it screws up training.
You are such a condensending person ..... Its all about gambling yada yada yada.......well you know what its not , its about a living breathing animal , its about the time and care it takes preparing them for competition . Do you really think the groom or the hotwalker or the trainer or owner or anyone involved with the horse in the race has your 2 dollars on their mind when that horse is in the starting gate? They dont , they are thinking about all the hardwork that has went into it , they are thinking about hoping that the horse comes back ok. If that is self -centered then shame on me for thinking about the product and not you .

I would like to go on record...I am NOT Honu

[alysheba4]

the good news is i just saved money on my car insurance...........

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You just can't get off your soap box long enough to understand the whole picture. I have the utmost respect for the people on the backstretch and the enormous amount of hard work they put forth for very little financial reward. I have the greatest respect for the animals as well. However, I don't have respect for the notion that the horseplayers interests are secondary to others as, very simply, we foot the bill for the entire show and have little to no say about anything ( partly because of backwards attitudes like yours ). The simple fact is that you could not make any living in this game without us and to completely disregard us, as you do, deserves my ultimate derision.

I didn't make any " they deserve what they get " kind of remarks. I am simply pointing out your unfortunate misunderstanding of the big picture. I care for the welfare of everyone in the game.....you don't.

You have left another player out of the equation.
The owner to help put on the show. The vast majority of
which lose money. So I guess the WE also takes into account
the owners.
So the picture is a little bigger.

[SniperSB23]

Any track where In Summation can beat Idiot Proof is certainly nothing like dirt.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Honu

Im sure they are tooo , Im not saying that racing doesnt need betters , Im saying that having a track that is not the way it supposed to be and having people say well they get what they deserve , they themselves are being selfish because they have no idea how it screws up the training of the horses , you know the things they gamble on .

You are not on a soap box. Thank you for telling it like it is despite cheap shots to you that have nothing to do with the Santa Anita surface. Which is the topic of this thread.

[blackthroatedwind]

As if we needed more proof.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

As if we needed more proof.

I don't play California tracks and don't know a lot about them but I do know Del Mar was up 3-4% in handle this year and Hollywood had good results as well. So bettors, overall, seem to be ok with the track surfaces. At least it seems that way to me.

[Rupert Pupkin]

The situation is very unfortunate. They did not cut any corners. They spent $11 million installing this track. They tried to do it right but it just didn't work out. In all likelihood, they are going to have to install a new surface right after the meet ends.

We are very nervous about running anything on the dirt at SA this meet. We're going to be running most of our horses on the grass. I don't know if these horses will even like the grass but the most imprtant thing is to come out of the race in one piece. The turf course at SA is excellent. It is very safe.

It will be interesting to see what's going to happen this weekend. They are going to seal the track. We are expecting about 4 inches of rain. That track is not really designed to be sealed. One of my trainers told me that he would not be shocked if they end up cancelling the races this weekend. Nobody really knows for sure what that track will be like with all the water sitting on top of it after they seal it. I certainly would not want to be running a horse this weekend. We have one that is supposed to run on Monday but in all likelihood we are going to scratch. It's just not worth taking a chance of an injury.

By the way, if they do put in a new surface after the meet ends, they will not have to rip out the track entirely. It appears that the drainage system at the bottom does work. It is just the composition of the track that is causing the drainage problems. So they will simply have to put a new surface on top. That is why the new job will cost about $6 million rather than the $11 million that it would cost to rip out everything and put in a brand new track.

[Scav]

Pyramid, cash rolls down hill.....

1) Bettor bets into pool
2) Track takes cut for operating expenses, purses
3) Track pays owner for win
4) Owner pays Trainer
5) Trainer pays employees

It is a pyramid.

Without bettors, tracks get nothing, without tracks, the trainers have no jobs, without trainers, their employees have no jobs.

[Dunbar]

What an unfortunate thread. You two are both way better than this thread. Honu cares about the horses she works with. BTW stresses the importance of bettors to the game itself. These are not contradictory positions, no matter how hard you and others in this thread try to make it look like they are. Focussing on single throwaway lines ("deserve what they get" or "we foot the bill for the entire show") distorts the discussion. It's like you are each in an argument with someone who isn't there.

--Dunbar

Originally Posted by Scav

Pyramid, cash rolls down hill.....

1) Bettor bets into pool
2) Track takes cut for operating expenses, purses
3) Track pays owner for win
4) Owner pays Trainer
5) Trainer pays employees

It is a pyramid.

Without bettors, tracks get nothing, without tracks, the trainers have no jobs, without trainers, their employees have no jobs.

How about owner pays for horse that actually runs?
There would be nothing to bet on if not for owners
buying the competitors. I feel compelled to make sure
the betting public understands this.

The owners and betting public are the cash cows, not just the betting public.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

What an unfortunate thread. You two are both way better than this thread. Honu cares about the horses she works with. BTW stresses the importance of bettors to the game itself. These are not contradictory positions, no matter how hard you and others in this thread try to make it look like they are. Focussing on single throwaway lines ("deserve what they get" or "we foot the bill for the entire show") distorts the discussion. It's like you are each in an argument with someone who isn't there.

--Dunbar

You make a valid point, to a certain extent, but we do foot the bill. I am all for backstretch worker's rights, and wish they were all treated well, but that doesn't mean I will allow someone who works on the backstretch to insist that their job does not depend on bettors. That is simply not true. Without us wagering there is no show.....period.

I think it would be unfortunate if people felt that the backstretch community does not care a great deal about the bettors. Many are acutely aware that without us there's no game to play. Honu is not aware of this. She claims that there would be racing on phantom estates and she would be employed by some Lord of the Manor in his pursuit to best his fellow bon vivants.

I don't agree.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by pgardn

How about owner pays for horse that actually runs?
There would be nothing to bet on if not for owners
buying the competitors. I feel compelled to make sure
the betting public understands this.

The owners and betting public are the cash cows, not just the betting public.

Your not getting the point. These owners would have NO REASON to run a horse if there wasn't the public FUNDING these purses.

The PURSES are the start of the process, without the purse, there is no horse racing. Owners/trainers/jockeys are tentacles to horse racing. Not a negative thing, but without the purses, which are funded by bettors, the rest wouldn't be there

[Rootdog1]

I am guessing it was an emotionally charged response. She cares, and that is as important a point as the one you two are bickering over. I see both your points, although you are expressing/communicating yours better...but lets keep the gloves up a bit.

By the way Mr. BTW, wouldnt you be out of a job without the bettors? (just trying to bring you two closer together here)

[Rootdog1]

Originally Posted by Scav

Your not getting the point. These owners would have NO REASON to run a horse if there wasn't the public FUNDING these purses.

The PURSES are the start of the process, without the purse, there is no horse racing. Owners/trainers/jockeys are tentacles to horse racing. Not a negative thing, but without the purses, which are funded by bettors, the rest wouldn't be there

Yes, this is the bottom line.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You make a valid point, to a certain extent, but we do foot the bill. I am all for backstretch worker's rights, and wish they were all treated well, but that doesn't mean I will allow someone who works on the backstretch to insist that their job does not depend on bettors. That is simply not true. Without us wagering there is no show.....period.

I think it would be unfortunate if people felt that the backstretch community does not care a great deal about the bettors. Many are acutely aware that without us there's no game to play. Honu is not aware of this. She claims that there would be racing on phantom estates and she would be employed by some Lord of the Manor in his pursuit to best his fellow bon vivants.

I don't agree.

In the city I live there was a 2 small tracks in which there was no wagering. Now the owners had wagers with each other. Parking was free, you could just go watch horses run. And it was quite fun. When Texas legalized racing these venues of course disappeared. Bill all footed by owners. Of course if you wanted to bet another person at the track you could. No track outtake.

I realize this is small potatoes. But it existed and thrived. You got a show for free.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You make a valid point, to a certain extent, but we do foot the bill. I am all for backstretch worker's rights, and wish they were all treated well, but that doesn't mean I will allow someone who works on the backstretch to insist that their job does not depend on bettors. That is simply not true. Without us wagering there is no show.....period.

I think it would be unfortunate if people felt that the backstretch community does not care a great deal about the bettors. Many are acutely aware that without us there's no game to play. Honu is not aware of this. She claims that there would be racing on phantom estates and she would be employed by some Lord of the Manor in his pursuit to best his fellow bon vivants.

I don't agree.

Man , I do get that gamblers fuel the sport havent I said that ? But much more than you and much more than me the owners and horses fuel it and without a track that functions properly its hard to prepare the horses to compete at their best so you can wager on them. The people my boss trains for are not in need of the purse money to stay in the game , if they were they wouldnt go spend 20 million or more a year on racing because I dont believe they ever get a return on that investment .
And you better get a grip with the fact that NO ONE is thinking about you when they lead a horse over for a race , Im sorry if this hurts your feelings but it is what it is , its all about the horse and hitting the wire in front .

Originally Posted by Scav

Your not getting the point. These owners would have NO REASON to run a horse if there wasn't the public FUNDING these purses.

The PURSES are the start of the process, without the purse, there is no horse racing. Owners/trainers/jockeys are tentacles to horse racing. Not a negative thing, but without the purses, which are funded by bettors, the rest wouldn't be there

See my other post.
Live and free.
And it was fun.

My dad lost money God bless him.