No Wood for Circular Quay

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i fully understand taking AGS to the wood.
CQ-now that half of the equation doesn't add up. i also expect to hear that something is amiss with the horse.

Unfortunately, I think this is the case as well.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Linny

AGS could go to Ill, Ark or even SoCal to get earnings. No need to shelve CQ. I suspect that there is more to it than earnings. CQ has not trained since 3/26. Something is amiss with him. The Pletcher barn has favored CQ from Day 1. Pletcher handled his sire and trained the dam to one of his very first G1 wins. This horse was the golden boy of the barn and I suspect that something may be wrong w/him. I doubt that they would be willing to "sacrifice" a Derby for him to benefit another. remember Pletcher handled Thunder Gulch and trained Circle of Life FOR TABOR. Coolmore is not a client that Todd wants to rile.

Well actually I have always heard that Scat Daddy was the "golden boy of the barn" b/c TP owned part of him.
Who knows what led to this decision? The problem with CQ is that he isn't "just" a G1 winning horse. He is a G1 winning horse by Thunder Gulch and out of a G1 winning mare. In today's game that makes him a piece of metal and the breeding shed a giant magnet. I fear we may have seen the last of him, but we have NO proof of that yet, so let's hope I'm wrong.
I have always liked this horse because I like his style (I love deep closers) and because I always liked Thunder Gulch......BUT this horse may come to represent everything that is wrong with racing.
First of all look at his pedigree. It is nothing but RAN and Northern Dancer EVERYWHERE!! http://www.pedigreequery.com/circular+quay
Secondly, if he actually wins the Derby off an 8-week layoff (which I don't think is out of the question) it will deal yet another blow to the seemingly arcane concept of running racehorses in horseraces.

[pointman]

This is a strange move. However, I just think that if Pletcher were going to screw an owner to get AGS in, Tabor is not that guy. More likely something is wrong with CQ.

[jpops757]

Im not qualified to judge this as good or bad. Unusual yes.A question I would like to ask some of the horsemen ,not just fans as I am. Can you have a horse ready to give his best effort and dont want to waste it for a prep race? Can youkeep him wound up for two months? Can Pletcher be thinking this horse is the special one and is actually training for the TC and not just the Derby. If he goes in the Derby I think it would be a mistake to automaticly toss him for this reason.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by pointman

This is a strange move. However, I just think that if Pletcher were going to screw an owner to get AGS in, Tabor is not that guy. More likely something is wrong with CQ.

I agree, but Tabor has got plenty of money, so I doubt they're retiring CQ this early so they can make him a stallion.

Although I fully understand that the 8-week to the Derby schedule is extremely questionable, I'm going to give Pletcher the benefit of the doubt on this one.
As others have said, CQ has plenty of bottom on him, having 7 career races.
I'd much rather see him fresh and ready on May 5th, than having him suffer an injury in a prep race and be forced off the derby trail.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

I agree, but Tabor has got plenty of money, so I doubt they're retiring CQ this early so they can make him a stallion.

You are thinking logically here. That simply won't work when it comes to analyzing these decisions. Bernardini's owners had MORE than plenty of money, but that didn't prevent them from sending him to the shed before he ever saw the track as a 4yo.
At this point we are all just speculating....nobody but TP knows what this means for sure, but unfortunately early retirement is, I believe, one of the things that COULD happen.

[Jax Cajun]

The recent moves and anticipated moves (hard spun) are making the 'capin of the Derby a little easier, IMO.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

dosent make since to me, i guess nobiz gets to beat any given saturday now

LOL

I doubt it will be that easy for him.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by philcski

Sadly, I believe you are on point here.

I don't see how Pletcher thinks he can win the Derby off an 8 week layoff. It's a real shame because there's a lot to like about CQ from the perspective of the "Derby profile"... distance doesn't appear to be an issue, has good speed figures, proven at 2, proven at 3, good running style, proven at CD... very disappointing. As much as I tried not to like him he has proven to me he should be at or near the top of the 3yo list.

See, I didn't think he had much of a chance to begin with. IF he makes it in the gate, he'll be an automatic toss for me.

[Linny]

Early April is an odd time to retire a horse that doesn't need to retire, so lets not jump the gun. I am however suspicious when a well organized guy like Tpdd decides to change plans. He just doesn't usually do so.

I was in Saratoga all summer and all I heard from the barn was how CQ was the "golden child" of the crop. Todd just loved him, the staff loved his easy going temperament and because he's a homebred for Tabor and with Todd's connection to sire and dam.... My guess is that though Todd owned a piece of SD, his emotional attachment was to CQ. Remember, he was not so attached to SD as to not sell his interest to Tabor.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

romp over nobiz ? he will be lucky to win

There's a big difference between the styles of CQ and Any Given Saturday. Before this announcement it was feasible to think that Nobiz could have gotten loose and backed the pace down making it impossible for a closer like Circular Quay to get there. Any Given Saturday is a completely different horse, so I'd wait and look at the PPs before saying anybody will be "lucky to win."

NT

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Linny

Early April is an odd time to retire a horse that doesn't need to retire, so lets not jump the gun. I am however suspicious when a well organized guy like Tpdd decides to change plans. He just doesn't usually do so.

I was in Saratoga all summer and all I heard from the barn was how CQ was the "golden child" of the crop. Todd just loved him, the staff loved his easy going temperament and because he's a homebred for Tabor and with Todd's connection to sire and dam.... My guess is that though Todd owned a piece of SD, his emotional attachment was to CQ. Remember, he was not so attached to SD as to not sell his interest to Tabor.

I recently heard the exact opposite. Heard that Todd's main derby horse was Any Given Saturday, but that his sentimental fave was Scat Daddy. I got the impression that CQ wasn't as high up on the list as those two...

[King Glorious]

So they are confident that AGS could win the Derby but would rather run him in the Wood instead of the Blue Grass because they aren't confident he's good enough to win that race or place second and get the earnings he'd need to be in the Derby? That sounds very wrong to me. If u don't think he can beat these horses in the Blue Grass, why think u can beat them when they are even tighter and more fit in the Derby?

Maybe it's me, but I think that u make a plan out for your horse based on what's best for him as far as his physical conditioning. If he came out of the TB Derby and u feel that he needs the extra week to the Blue Grass, give it to him. Don't audible now because u took another horse out of a big race and u need a filler. That's not sticking to the plan for the horse. Training and racing one horse because of how another one trains is asking for trouble in my opinion. I would think that u are supposed to handle each horse as an individual. If they are racing AGS here simply to try and have an easier chance to get the earnings and with less regard for what may be physically the best course for him, I think that's sad.

[Cajungator26]

Sorry, but I'm slow this morning... just read the title to this thread and got a good chuckle.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I recently heard the exact opposite. Heard that Todd's main derby horse was Any Given Saturday, but that his sentimental fave was Scat Daddy. I got the impression that CQ wasn't as high up on the list as those two...

I'm not so sure about that, if he was so great why would he debut him at Turdway?!?

http://www.thoroughbrednet.us/discus...topic=9193&hl=

Personally I thought his army's chances stacked up as such:
CQ
AGS
SD
Cowtown Cat
King of the Roxy
Sam P

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by philcski

I'm not so sure about that, if he was so great why would he debut him at Turdway?!?

http://www.thoroughbrednet.us/discus...topic=9193&hl=

Personally I thought his army's chances stacked up as such:
CQ
AGS
SD
Cowtown Cat
King of the Roxy
Sam P

I think the Turfway debut had more to do with Polytrack than anything else. WinStar seems to like its horses running in Kentucky, AGS was ready to go and Turfway was open. That just seems to make sense in my mind. Of course, I don't have ten contenders for the Derby.

NT

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Sorry, but I'm slow this morning... just read the title to this thread and got a good chuckle.

Well, considering Pletcher has problems with his Monkey, are you suprised he's struggling with the Wood as well?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by philcski

Well, considering Pletcher has problems with his Monkey, are you suprised he's struggling with the Wood as well?

Oy vey!!!

He doesn't have problems with his shiat... er... Scat!

Don't get me started this morning!

[philcski]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I think the Turfway debut had more to do with Polytrack than anything else. WinStar seems to like its horses running in Kentucky, AGS was ready to go and Turfway was open. That just seems to make sense in my mind. Of course, I don't have ten contenders for the Derby.

NT

Keeneland opened 3 days later for 2-2.5x the MSW pot. If he ABSOLUTELY had to run, I understand it... needless to say, it was an excellent debut.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

What are the odds that Pletcher doesn't win the Derby with any of his hopefuls???

There is a bet I would be looking to put some action on.
He isn't winning the Derby.

That said, I hope CQ is okay, and can run somewhere, someplace again.