Sun King - Page 2

Linny · #21 02-13-2007, 02:18 PM

I don't think the trip cost him. Invasor would have won with another 1/16 or another mile. But...

From the Equibase chart. INVASOR stumbled leaving the gate (post 2), settled in good position entering the 1st turn, moved out a bit entering the backstretch , split rivals while gaining near the 5/8 pole, closed the gap while rallying just inside of Flower Alley midway on the turn, angled 4 wide for clear sailing entering the stretch and accelerated to the front approaching the furlong marker...

SUN KING raced well back for 6 furlongs while saving ground, launched a bid while on the inside midway on the turn, altered course to the outside while 6 wide leaving the 1/4 pole, rapidly gained from the outside to challenge at the 1/8 pole...

At Saratoga, six wide on the second turn is far worse than angling out at the top of the lane. Neither horse had "bad" trips but as usual the tactical speed and accelerating of Invasor won the day. I'm not trying to say that SK is as good as Invasor, he's not. Tactical speed horses can generally negotiate better trips. Whether the horses are Affirmed and Alydar, Slew and Exceller, Easy Goer and Sunday Silence or Invasor or SK, the one with speed always has an advantage.

The Indomitable DrugS · #22 02-13-2007, 02:23 PM

Oh brother.

I give up.

Gander · #23 02-13-2007, 02:24 PM

I wasnt really impressed with this race. I thought every horse looked very tired coming down the stretch. It was a matter of "somebody had to win". Definetely not a stellar bunch of horses for a Grade 1 at the best racetrack in the world.

blackthroatedwind · #24 02-13-2007, 02:26 PM

I may be the leader of the Sun King Fan Club, though Linny you sound like you could give me a run, but he had a very good trip in the Whitney and didn't angle wide until the very end of the turn. Invasor, aside from mild early trouble, was moved WAY too soon by Jara, in possible fear of the ridiculous Flower Alley, and was really best that day.

What Sun King does before the Met Mile this year really depends on when he is ready. Personally I think there's a Grade 1 in early April that could suit him perfectly. We'll see.

The Indomitable DrugS · #25 02-13-2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

Tactical speed horses can generally negotiate better trips. Whether the horses are Affirmed and Alydar, Slew and Exceller, Easy Goer and Sunday Silence or Invasor or SK

Sun King set the pace in the 2005 Breeders Cup Classic, and was coming off of a Graded Stakes win at 7 furlongs, and a narrow defeat in a fast paced Grade 1 one-turn mile.

Invasor, who is most effective using mid-pack-to-closing tactics, going a classic distance of ground, was coming out of a slow paced 10 furlong win, going into the Whitney.

The fast pace of that race was FAR more suited to Sun King. On top of that, Invasor was used very early to take it to Flower Alley.

There was nothing tricky at all about making trip judgements in this race. If Sun King couldn't beat Invasor that day...what more would he need in his favor?

Gander · #26 02-13-2007, 02:33 PM

What Sun King does before the Met Mile this year really depends on when he is ready. Personally I think there's a Grade 1 in early April that could suit him perfectly. We'll see.

Probably talking about a sprint at Keeneland?

The Indomitable DrugS · #27 02-13-2007, 02:34 PM

The Carter I assume

SniperSB23 · #28 02-13-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

What Sun King does before the Met Mile this year really depends on when he is ready. Personally I think there's a Grade 1 in early April that could suit him perfectly. We'll see.

Probably talking about a sprint at Keeneland?

Nope, a rubber match with Sir Greeley.

#29 02-13-2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Compared to Invasor's trip....he absolutely did.

you mean getting to to chase 7 speed horses who all started to collapse, except the winner, while the winner was getting the worst ride in history, is not a candy set up?

If sun king was every going to beat a top class horse it would have been that set up.

Sun King never finished ahead of Giacomo in a race (0/3), thats all I need to know.

Gander · #30 02-13-2007, 02:38 PM

I forgot about the Carter. The race which made Bishop Court Hill a household name. LOL! Maybe Sun King can luck out (like Jazil did last year) and find a soft field for a grade 1.

The Indomitable DrugS · #31 02-13-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Sun King never finished ahead of Giacomo in a race (0/3), thats all I need to know.

You know, I believe I heard that stat before.

I like it!

declansharbor · #32 02-13-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

you mean getting to to chase 7 speed horses who all started to collapse, except the winner, while the winner was getting the worst ride in history, is not a candy set up?

If sun king was every going to beat a top class horse it would have been that set up.

Sun King never finished ahead of Giacomo in a race (0/3), thats all I need to know.

Yeah, and Upset beat Man O War, hence the second meaning of upset(At least that's what robert Wuhl said)......Does that make him a better horse?? No..
It all depends on pace scenarios, which is the main reason i go with early speed..Sometimes, stretch runners cant "get up" in time..

slotdirt · #33 02-13-2007, 02:46 PM

Come on, Sun King lost to Giacomo in two TC races and one Breeders Cup race. Those races are complete fusterclucks, and complete throwouts when comparing two horses. Does anybody really believe Giacomo's a more talented racehorse than is Sun King? I know I don't.

The Indomitable DrugS · #34 02-13-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Sun King lost to Giacomo in two TC races and one Breeders Cup race. Those races are complete fusterclucks, and complete throwouts when comparing two horses.

The Kentucky Derby, Preakness, and Breeders Cup Classic are "complete throwouts" ??

Gander · #35 02-13-2007, 02:52 PM

Sun King's finest race was when he closed from out of the clouds and nailed Kazoo on the line. It was last spring at Keeneland I believe. It was awesome to watch.

Cajungator26 · #36 02-13-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The Kentucky Derby, Preakness, and Breeders Cup Classic are "complete throwouts" ??

I think the derby is a for sure throwout.

slotdirt · #37 02-13-2007, 02:54 PM

In this particular instance, absolutely. Do you really think these three races in particular are a useful way to compare these two horses? The 2005 Derby was an absolute anomaly, the Preakness was equally as wacky, and it's not like either Giacomo or Sun King were even within hailing distance of Invasor and Bernardini in the Breeders Cup Classic. Aside from the Derby, they were plain old afterthoughts in the other two races.

The Indomitable DrugS · #38 02-13-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I think the derby is a for sure throwout.

Fine.....let's thorwout Barbaro's Derby performance than.

What do we have left?

A maiden win on the Delaware Park turf course. A pair of stake wins on turf at Calder and Laurel. And a pair of stakes wins on dirt at GP....at the expense of Great Point and Sharp Humor....neither performance by a large margin of victory.

blackthroatedwind · #39 02-13-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

What Sun King does before the Met Mile this year really depends on when he is ready. Personally I think there's a Grade 1 in early April that could suit him perfectly. We'll see.

Probably talking about a sprint at Keeneland?

On Polytrack? No. There are no Grade 1 sprints at Keeneland.

blackthroatedwind · #40 02-13-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Nope, a rubber match with Sir Greeley.

Yeah, horses all over America, and probably Europe as well, are literally quaking in their stalls after Sir Greeley's scintilating performance the other day.