kudos to byk.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm staying away from that obvious trap.

Was it THAT obvious?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by point given

Of course you are correct , stupid me.

How about cross nominating, with first choice for the weaker race ?





Originally Posted by point given
i can also see alot of cross entree's and scratches on the horizon, as owners/trainers seek to avoid the heavy heads, but still get their G1 black type win for breeding .

They do that already

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Was it THAT obvious?

I'm getting better at spotting them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm getting better at spotting them.

you are better at spottting them then NYRA is at spotting gate works for 1st timers. Two 1st timers in Wed's 3 yo MSW with zero gate works, and the other 1ster has a gate work 2 months ago.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

you are better at spottting them then NYRA is at spotting gate works for 1st timers. Two 1st timers in Wed's 3 yo MSW with zero gate works, and the other 1ster has a gate work 2 months ago.

I'm not familiar with the rules behind first time starters, but I thought they needed some sort of gate card or something to enter a race? What is the requirement?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'm not familiar with the rules behind first time starters, but I thought they needed some sort of gate card or something to enter a race? What is the requirement?

In theory you need to work from the gate in order to get you gate card but it seems that some tracks are a bit lax with this rule. Truthfully the way we monitor and record workouts is a joke.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In theory you need to work from the gate in order to get you gate card but it seems that some tracks are a bit lax with this rule. Truthfully the way we monitor and record workouts is a joke.

Thanks for answering my question.

[SentToStud]

Just a couple points of disagreement with the piece.

1. Concept: BC just created the second richest day in US racing. Alone, that's not enough but it's a factor that more good horses will have opportunities to run for more money as opposed to the alternative. I wonder how many total post/reads there were on the Derby Trail Delta Jackpot thread?

2. The Juvenile Turf will bring international horses not only for the BC race but some of them for preps as well. Also, what have been modestly meaningless 2 yo early fall turf stakes will increase in quality and meaning.

3. The FM Sprint alone carries a lot of weight in considering the whole day a success.

4. The Mile will be a good race. I'm sorry to see the criticism for the distance of 1&70 but distances have not been sacrosanct in prior BCs Why should they be now? The fact that some years the race will be 1 turn vs two and in some years the distance won't be an exact mile make the race more compelling, many would say. Decent 9F runners who cant go the classic distance have a good race to run in. So too will 7F specialists.

5. The venue criticism is arguably valid but only if you accept the premise that the main intent of the BC is to be an on-track experience. I'm also disappointed with the slam of Gulfstream Park. I'm sorry, but you could never build a track like Belmont or Aqueduct again.

My wife and I were having lunch at Gulf a few days ago and one of the GP marketing officers asked if he could sit down. We talked for a few minutes and I remarked that it looked like the nicest area of the racetrack was the simulcast room. He responded by telling me that that is where 93% of the track's racing revenue comes from. It is NOT an on-track sport anymore. When a "host" track (the one actually running the races) gets only 20% or so of the simulcast revenue generated by the wagering, racetracks are compelled to go after the simulcast dollar.

It's also interesting that when I bought tickets online a few days ago for the Sunshine Millions Card, I was able to get six grandstand tickets together in the grandstand in the third row on the finish line. Just for the hell of it I checked availability of the "premium simulcast room" seating. Sold out. This is three weeks before the event.

All the New York people here will certainly recall when their great NYRA dropped Keeneland in favor of Sunland Park due in part, at least, to the fact that the revenue deal was more in their interest.

Racing is a simulcast and ADW sport. It is not a live spectator sport.

I'm not in love with Stronach but then again he is going to spend another $50 Million + to renovate Laurel.

6. Field Size. Personally, I won't be disappointed to see the Classic or Sprint "suffer" with just 10-12 runners vs 14 due to adding the Mile and FM Sprint. Seeing horses break from post 14 going 10F at Belmont does not really get me excited.

7. The Cigar Mile and Clark will suffer. Then again, people have for some time already decried these races as not deserving of their current status.

One Man's View

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

It's also interesting that when I bought tickets online a few days ago for the Sunshine Millions Card, I was able to get six grandstand tickets together in the grandstand in the third row on the finish line. Just for the hell of it I checked availability of the "premium simulcast room" seating. Sold out. This is three weeks before the event.

Is that as exciting as it sounds?!

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

All the New York people here will certainly recall when their great NYRA dropped Keeneland in favor of Sunland Park due in part, at least, to the fact that the revenue deal was more in their interest.

NYC-OTB dropped the Keeneland signal, not NYRA, in a dispute over simulcast fees ( and I believe they substituted Yakima ). NYRA has taken Keeneland uninterupted since at least the Spring of 1995.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

2. The Juvenile Turf will bring international horses not only for the BC race but some of them for preps as well. Also, what have been modestly meaningless 2 yo early fall turf stakes will increase in quality and meaning.

just out of curiosity what are the preps for a 2 YO turf championship...here in the US?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Woodbine's Summer Stakes is run around the time of the Atto Mile, and Keeneland runs two races for juvenile turf runners at the end of its autumn meet that it will undoubtedly move up to its already front-loaded meet beginning.

Belmont has 1 1/8 juvenile turf races (Pilgrim/Miss Grillo) that could be relocated and shortened to provide its version of a prep.

I think that Saratoga has an unlisted juvenile turf race ($65K, the Phil Johnson?), too. I'm sure NYRA will have something at its Saratoga meet as a follow-up to the 6F juvenile turf races that it runs in July.

The races will be juggled or invented to fit the Breeders' Cup. It will happen.

All ungraded except maybe the summer (gr3?) I think Belmonts races are now ungraded

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

just out of curiosity what are the preps for a 2 YO turf championship...here in the US?

offhand, there's the Grillo and Pilgrim at Belmont, the Jessamine at Keenland and there's a 2 yo turf set at Calder as well in the fall.

I'd expect Monmouth to have a prep.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

offhand, there's the Grillo and Pilgrim at Belmont, the Jessamine at Keenland and there's a 2 yo turf set at Calder as well in the fall.

I'd expect Monmouth to have a prep.

They have the jr champion

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

All ungraded except maybe the summer (gr3?) I think Belmonts races are now ungraded

that was kind-of my point...there is no current basis or demand for a 2 YO turf championship here in the US and threfore those prep races are pretty unlikely to draw any top European truf runners...what we would get are the 3rd tier euros that can't win across the pond..and bumping these listed stakes up to graded status in order to maximize the prestige of the 2YO truf BC just seems silly to me...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

that was kind-of my point...there is no current basis or demand for a 2 YO turf championship here in the US and threfore those prep races are pretty unlikely to draw any top European truf runners...what we would get are the 3rd tier euros that can't win across the pond..and bumping these listed stakes up to graded status in order to maximize the prestige of the 2YO truf BC just seems silly to me...

Having little to no opportunities for American turf horses to run in graded stakes on the turf until June of their 3yo season seems silly to me. No wonder we get our butts kicked by the Euros in the BC Turf.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

that was kind-of my point...there is no current basis or demand for a 2 YO turf championship here in the US and threfore those prep races are pretty unlikely to draw any top European truf runners...what we would get are the 3rd tier euros that can't win across the pond..and bumping these listed stakes up to graded status in order to maximize the prestige of the 2YO truf BC just seems silly to me...

Very few europeans prep in the US for any race but your point is well taken. As I stated before, what will be the criteria in determining the american runners since there will be very few points to be earned being no graded stakes as preps. I guess there will be some second raters who may have placed in a dirt stake that take a shot.
I think that there is some process by which the races must adhere to in order to get a grading and most of the races are a long ways off.
I personally dont mind the race but there are some issues that need to be clarified.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Very few europeans prep in the US for any race but your point is well taken. As I stated before, what will be the criteria in determining the american runners since there will be very few points to be earned being no graded stakes as preps. I guess there will be some second raters who may have placed in a dirt stake that take a shot.
I think that there is some process by which the races must adhere to in order to get a grading and most of the races are a long ways off.
I personally dont mind the race but there are some issues that need to be clarified.

also my point but you said it better than I could...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

also my point but you said it better than I could...

maybe we will start to grade maiden races...

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

maybe we will start to grade maiden races...

now you're talking...you're the man with the plan...