Strong Pretender Excuses Thread

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I never liked Strong Contender to begin with, but honestly we did hear a couple of excuses after Jazil yesterday. Blaming Jara in fact for being too far back was one I recall.

Does he really need excuses? First off of a layoff of more than 6 months, on a speed-favoring track, at distance that is probably less than he wants to show his best. Sounds like second was a good return race. You have to know they didn't have him fully cranked up for this one anyway. It was a preparatory race to get him ready for the better races later. Honestly, only very special horses win every time; even great horses lose now and again (Kelso was 39 for 63, Round Table was 43 for 66, Secretariat was 16 for 21), and Jazil isn't a great horse.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Jara took him late. He closed to within 2 lengths and had they went another 1/16th we would be talking about some amazingly bright 4yo campaign ahead of him. Don't kick dirt on him yet....He's got alot to show

[todko]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Jara took him late. He closed to within 2 lengths and had they went another 1/16th we would be talking about some amazingly bright 4yo campaign ahead of him. Don't kick dirt on him yet....He's got alot to show

He's certainly a better horse than Strong Pretender.

[Kasept]

I'm sorry I didn't just delete this thread the minute I saw the title...

Instead of looking to attack the 6, 9, 11 horses that finish behind the SINGLE winner of these stakes, how about some credit for the performances of those that won?

Chetain emerged today as a real nice horse... Classic Campaign won a thrilling turf stake... And people are looking to create negative attributes towards ones that 'didn't win'...

I don't get it... And I frankly, hate it.

Race fans complain UNENDINGLY about premature retirements, and here you have a handful of horses BACK for their 4 year old seasons and they're immediately decried as useless off single starts. It's ridiculous.

Jazil got back to the races after a 6 month layoff to start a season off an the same injury that ENDED Smarty Jones' career... Maybe you'd prefer he just be sent off to one of Shadwell's stud farms? Strong Contender, and Saint for that matter, have bigger objectives on their itinerary than the Mr. Prospector. And all three trainers of these horses made it very clear what was on their minds going into these races.

Why is any discussion of a loss these days labeled under 'excuses'?... Defeats in racing are far more frequent than wins. There are all kinds of reasons that races go the way they do. What possible complaint would anyone have with the performances of Saint and Greeley behind Chatain today? What complaint would anyone have with Johannesburg Star's performance? Etc... 'Seasons' and 'careers' are bodies of work. Not single snapshots.

[paisjpq]

well said Steve...

and for the record NONE of them can use the excuse that my money was on them...I didn't bet the race

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I'm sorry I didn't just delete this thread the minute I saw the title...

Instead of looking to attack the 6, 9, 11 horses that finish behind the SINGLE winner of these stakes, how about some credit for the performances of those that won?

Chetain emerged today as a real nice horse... Classic Campaign won a thrilling turf stake... And people are looking to create negative attributes towards ones that 'didn't win'...

I don't get it... And I frankly, hate it.

Race fans complain UNENDINGLY about premature retirements, and here you have a handful of horses BACK for their 4 year old seasons and they're immediately decried as useless off single starts. It's ridiculous.

Jazil got back to the races after a 6 month layoff to start a season off an the same injury that ENDED Smarty Jones' career... Maybe you'd prefer he just be sent off to one of Shadwell's stud farms? Strong Contender, and Saint for that matter, have bigger objectives on their itinerary than the Mr. Prospector. And all three trainers of these horses made it very clear what was on their minds going into these races.

Why is any discussion of a loss these days labeled under 'excuses'?... Defeats in racing are far more frequent than wins. There are all kinds of reasons that races go the way they do. What possible complaint would anyone have with the performances of Saint and Greeley behind Chatain today? What complaint would anyone have with Johannesburg Star's performance? Etc... 'Seasons' and 'careers' are bodies of work. Not single snapshots.

Excellent points. And I was happy with how SNS ran. Even being 3rd, he should move forward off this....But yes, positive threads on horses should outweigh these ones.

[Danzig]

good points by several on here.
i'm just glad they're all racing. we should all know by now that horses don't always run at their best.
also, chatain may be a star in the making, after missing a lot of racing due to various injuries.
it's only january, hopefully many more races to come from all these.

[Bravado2112]

I have no strong opinion on Strong Contender beyond the fact that he's a talented and inconsistent horse who occasionally throws down huge efforts (I think the Dwyer figure is pretty legit), but I think the Ward's comments BEFORE the race were pretty telling:

Strong Contender, who shares high weight of 120 pounds with Sweetnorthernsaint, may be at a bit of a disadvantage in the Hal’s Hope, having not started since winning the Super Derby on Sept. 23. He has worked twice since shipping to Gulfstream in December.

“He’s probably going to need this race, but this one should set him up perfectly for the Donn and especially the Santa Anita Handicap,” said Ward.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/81662.html

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I'm sorry I didn't just delete this thread the minute I saw the title...

Instead of looking to attack the 6, 9, 11 horses that finish behind the SINGLE winner of these stakes, how about some credit for the performances of those that won?

Chetain emerged today as a real nice horse... Classic Campaign won a thrilling turf stake... And people are looking to create negative attributes towards ones that 'didn't win'...

I don't get it... And I frankly, hate it.

Race fans complain UNENDINGLY about premature retirements, and here you have a handful of horses BACK for their 4 year old seasons and they're immediately decried as useless off single starts. It's ridiculous.

Jazil got back to the races after a 6 month layoff to start a season off an the same injury that ENDED Smarty Jones' career... Maybe you'd prefer he just be sent off to one of Shadwell's stud farms? Strong Contender, and Saint for that matter, have bigger objectives on their itinerary than the Mr. Prospector. And all three trainers of these horses made it very clear what was on their minds going into these races.

Why is any discussion of a loss these days labeled under 'excuses'?... Defeats in racing are far more frequent than wins. There are all kinds of reasons that races go the way they do. What possible complaint would anyone have with the performances of Saint and Greeley behind Chatain today? What complaint would anyone have with Johannesburg Star's performance? Etc... 'Seasons' and 'careers' are bodies of work. Not single snapshots.

And people calling horses "dogs" or "goats" are a positive thing?

[Cajungator26]

Personally, I think it's funny that Sniper started this thread... Sir Greeley didn't finish in the money either.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

And people calling horses "dogs" or "goats" are a positive thing?

No... (You write that as if I endorse calling horses dogs or goats...) But I would say that the trainer of the animal so named in one post the other day, helped address that silliness better than anyone else could have... with his response online and Pink Viper's on track.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I'm sorry I didn't just delete this thread the minute I saw the title...

Instead of looking to attack the 6, 9, 11 horses that finish behind the SINGLE winner of these stakes, how about some credit for the performances of those that won?

Chetain emerged today as a real nice horse... Classic Campaign won a thrilling turf stake... And people are looking to create negative attributes towards ones that 'didn't win'...

I don't get it... And I frankly, hate it.

Race fans complain UNENDINGLY about premature retirements, and here you have a handful of horses BACK for their 4 year old seasons and they're immediately decried as useless off single starts. It's ridiculous.

Jazil got back to the races after a 6 month layoff to start a season off an the same injury that ENDED Smarty Jones' career... Maybe you'd prefer he just be sent off to one of Shadwell's stud farms? Strong Contender, and Saint for that matter, have bigger objectives on their itinerary than the Mr. Prospector. And all three trainers of these horses made it very clear what was on their minds going into these races.

Why is any discussion of a loss these days labeled under 'excuses'?... Defeats in racing are far more frequent than wins. There are all kinds of reasons that races go the way they do. What possible complaint would anyone have with the performances of Saint and Greeley behind Chatain today? What complaint would anyone have with Johannesburg Star's performance? Etc... 'Seasons' and 'careers' are bodies of work. Not single snapshots.

I'm sorry you took this thread the wrong way and I apologize for posting it. I tried telling everyone before the race that the horse wasn't as great as he was being made out to be, backed it up with facts, and was just told how wrong I was. It wasn't like I just called the horse a pig and didn't give any basis for that opinion. After the race I was headed out to watch the NFL games so figured I would set up this thread so we could have one central place to argue Strong Contender rather than have it contaminate the threads about the race that should have been about the impressive performances in the race. Apparently that was wrong of me. I'll tone down my posting here and only focus on the positives and leave my negative posts for other forums. Although I still don't understand how a thread saying that a horse isn't fast is bad but calling jockeys "gnomes" is OK.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Thats kind of tough to say he would have won. Seems like that is something I have heard about everyone of Jazils races minus the Belmont. ".....this much farther and he would have won".

Hoss - just going by the replay...the field was subpar at best and Take the Bluff had all he could stand. The fact that we couldn't even see the pace until the head on (for the fog) leaves alot to conjecture. I wouldn't bet against him against the same field going 1 1/8th or better.

[-BT-]

Chatain making only his 4th career start was certainly eligible to improve and had raced well over the surface in March.

I thought SNS ran ok, but was not sure what to make about the front wraps

Sir Greely came on late to just miss.

The race attracted a good field and horses that figured did hit the board. Looking forward to races with older horse as the year continues, we may see some great rivalries developing. I think it's way to early to dismiss Strong Contender off from this race