Half Bro to Smarty entered on 1/1/07

[dr. fager]

who's the trainer?

[Scav]

Beau Greely

[Rupert Pupkin]

I just realized that nobody has mentioned who the horse is by. He is by Orientate.

[saucon17]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I just realized that nobody has mentioned who the horse is by. He is by Orientate.

Richi,

I was wondering if you knew who bred this colt and in what state?

Thanks Mike

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yeah, Rock Hard Ten really sucked. He only won 5 graded stakes races in a row: He won the Swaps(Grade II), then the Malibu(Grade I), then the Strub(Grade II), then the SA Handicap(Grade I), then the Goodwood(Grade II).

I guess you're right. All he had was good looks. He only won 5 graded stakes races in a row at distances ranging anwhere from 7 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles. I can't figure out why people thought he was a good horse.

i guess i should have put in my post the fact that i was talking about RHT when he was running with smarty. i think he got bet way down because he was black--or maybe tall and black. he turned out well after, but he sure got a lot of undeserved attention when he came east before all his successes in cali.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by saucon17

Richi,

I was wondering if you knew who bred this colt and in what state?

Thanks Mike

clover leaf farms
fla
according to pedigree query...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by saucon17

Richi,

I was wondering if you knew who bred this colt and in what state?

Thanks Mike

Bred in Florida by Clover Leaf Farms.

He must not be a very attractive horse in terms of conformation. If he was, it is very unlikely that he would have ended up in a 2 year old sale. If he was attractive, he would have sold for a lot of money in a yearling sale.

Many people don't realize that you will rarely see a horse with both great breeding and great conformation at a 2 year old sale. A horse may have one of those qualities or the other but not both. If you have a horse with both great breeding and great conformation, you would have to be crazy to put the horse in a 2 year old sale. Here is the reason: If the horse has great breeding and great conformation, he will sell for a fortune at a yearling sale. For example, let's say you have such a horse and he is by AP Indy out of a graded stakes winning mare. If he is great looking, you can probably get a few million dollars for him at a yearling sale. If you try to sell him at a 2 year old sale instead, you have huge downside and not much upside. His workout will have a huge impact on his sale price. What happens if he doesn't have a good workout? If his workout is lousy, you may only get $150,000 for him instead of $3 million. There is very little to gain and a lot to lose.

On the other hand, lets say you have a horse that has great breeding but poor conformation. Let's say the horse is by Storm Cat and is out of a graded stakes winning mare, but the horse is very crooked. You'd still probably try to sell him at a yearling sale, but if you weren't happy with the price, then you could keep him and try a 2 year old sale. Let's say that nobody bids more than $200,000 for the horse. It may be worth a shot to go to the 2 year old sale because if the horse has a really good workout, you may still get over $1 million for him.

Another type of horse that would make sense to put in a 2 year old sale would be a great looking horse with just an average pedigree. Such a horse may only bring $100,000 at a yearling sale. But if he has a great workout at a 2 year old sale, he could sell for $2 million.

[saucon17]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

clover leaf farms
fla
according to pedigree query...

Thanks Danzig

Didn't I'll Get Along sell at the sale for 4-5 million, When
she was sold did the Chapmans own here or did Cloverleaf
farm or another farm were her owners

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i guess i should have put in my post the fact that i was talking about RHT when he was running with smarty. i think he got bet way down because he was black--or maybe tall and black. he turned out well after, but he sure got a lot of undeserved attention when he came east before all his successes in cali.

Yes, that may be true. He hadn't accomplished that much at that time but he looked like he had a lot of potential.

[saucon17]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Bred in Florida by Clover Leaf Farms.

He must not be a very attractive horse in terms of conformation. If he was, it is very unlikely that he would ended up in a 2 year old sale. If he was attractive, he would have sold for a lot of money in a yearling sale.

Many people don't realize that you will rarely see a horse with both great breeding and great conformation at a 2 year old sale. A horse may have one or the other but not both. If you have a horse with both great breeding and great conformation, you would have to be crazy to put the horse in a 2 year old sale. Here is the reason: If the horse has great breeding and great conformation, he will sell for a fortune at a yearling sale. For example, let's say you have such a horse and he is by AP Indy out of a graded stakes winning mare. If he is great looking, you can probably get a few million dollars for him at a yearling sale. If you try to sell him at a 2 year old sale instead, you have huge downside and not much upside. His workout will have a huge impact on his sale price. What happens if he doesn't have a good workout? If his workout is lousy, you may only get $100,000 for him instead of $3 million. There is very little to gain and a lot to lose.

On the other hand, lets say you have a horse that has great breeding but poor conformation. Let's say the horse is by Storm Cat and is out of a graded stakes winning mare, but the horse is very crooked. You'd still probably try to sell him at a yearling sale, but if you weren't happy with the price, then you could keep him and try a 2 year old sale. Let's say that nobody bids more than $200,000 for the horse. It may be worth a shot to go to the 2 year old sale because if the horse has a really good workout, you may still get over $1 million for him.

Let's say you have a great looking horse with just an average peidgree. Such a horse may only bring $100,000 at a yearling sale. But if he has a great workout at a 2 year old sale, he could sell for $2 million.

Thanks Richi for the great info, everything you say makes complete sense to me, Did you see this colt at the Timonium sale?

It reminds me of the Dance Master colt who S. Klesaris bought for 600k for a
stud that stands for less than 5K he must of had great conformation and worked the like a bullet. I'm drawing a blank on this horses name

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by saucon17

Thanks Richi for the great info, everything you say makes complete sense to me, Did you see this colt at the Timonium sale?

It reminds me of the Dance Master colt who S. Klesaris bought for 600k for a
stud that stands for less than 5K he must of had great conformation and worked the like a bullet. I'm drawing a blank on this horses name

I didn't actually go to that sale in person, but I have the video of all the workouts from that sale.

That is a good example you gave about the Klesaris horse. That horse probably would have gone for well under $100,000 at a yearling sale.

Many of the horses at 2 year old sales are horses that were bought at yearling sales by pinhookers. Let's take a horse such as the Klesaris horse. Sometimes you will see a horse like this sell for around $50,000 at a yearling sale to a pinhooker. The breeder is happy to get $50,000 because he only paid $5,000 to breed to Dance Master. The breeder is not willing to take the same risk as the pinhooker. The breeder is happy to sell the horse for $50,000 and make a nice profit. The pinhooker who buys the horse for $50,000, sees the horse as a horse who he may be able to double or triple his money on. In the case of the Klesaris horse, let's pretend he was bought by a pinhooker for $50,000 at a yeraling sale. The pinhooker would have made 13x his money. Well actually not quite that much because by the time the 2 year old sale comes around, the pinhooker would be into the horse for an additional $20,000 or so. But he would still make about 9x his money.

[blackthroatedwind]

The workouts from the sales are available on the internet.....DrugS taught me that.

Don't know the site but ask him next time he posts.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Where has DrugS been? Any idea?

He's pretending he's not a degenerate for a few days. He will return to his true calling shortly. He has too big a talent to waste.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Scav

I have been betting him since I was a tot. I used to need beer money at SIU and I knew Sam Houston was running and cruised up to the OTB and put it all on Cogburn....he used to be a 20% clip jock but I think he was having problems, weight and drugs.

Rooster is riding at RP now. Will probably take a few at Oaklawn and then move to LS.

[sumitas]

Because the race in on the left coast I would choose Mig or Gryder.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I didn't actually go to that sale in person, but I have the video of all the workouts from that sale.

That is a good example you gave about the Klesaris horse. That horse probably would have gone for well under $100,000 at a yearling sale.

Many of the horses at 2 year old sales are horses that were bought at yearling sales by pinhookers. Let's take a horse such as the Klesaris horse. Sometimes you will see a horse like this sell for around $50,000 at a yearling sale to a pinhooker. The breeder is happy to get $50,000 because he only paid $5,000 to breed to Dance Master. The breeder is not willing to take the same risk as the pinhooker. The breeder is happy to sell the horse for $50,000 and make a nice profit. The pinhooker who buys the horse for $50,000, sees the horse as a horse who he may be able to double or triple his money on. In the case of the Klesaris horse, let's pretend he was bought by a pinhooker for $50,000 at a yeraling sale. The pinhooker would have made 13x his money. Well actually not quite that much because by the time the 2 year old sale comes around, the pinhooker would be into the horse for an additional $20,000 or so. But he would still make about 9x his money.

are you guys forgetting that this horse was a pinhook at the 2 YO sale in MD?...he was bought as a yearling @ Fasig July...I wasn't there but a friend who was at the time said he was 'scary looking' and that both his front legs 'appear to come out of the same hole' ...course that was the same thing she said about Smarty when the went for stallion inspection...

and if I remember right they tripled their money at the 2 YO sale...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

excellent post, and point!

it's hard sometimes to like a horse when the adulation borders the ridiculous. or oversteps ridiculous and leaps to asinine. i think the worst tho was the adulation for rock hard ten. at least smarty had a ton of talent to go with his following, rather than just good looks and height.

Isn't that the truth!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by saucon17

Thanks Danzig

Didn't I'll Get Along sell at the sale for 4-5 million, When
she was sold did the Chapmans own here or did Cloverleaf
farm or another farm were her owners

they had sold i'll get along, and were down to only smarty and one other horse of racing age when smarty took them on their wild ride. i'll get along was sold to a farm in britain after smarty hit the big time. so whoever bought her from the chapmans made out pretty good. she had been booked, but they cancelled the booking for that spring and sent her back to elusive quality to get a full bro or sis, and then sold her for 5 million while she was in foal.

[saucon17]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

they had sold i'll get along, and were down to only smarty and one other horse of racing age when smarty took them on their wild ride. i'll get along was sold to a farm in britain after smarty hit the big time. so whoever bought her from the chapmans made out pretty good. she had been booked, but they cancelled the booking for that spring and sent her back to elusive quality to get a full bro or sis, and then sold her for 5 million while she was in foal.

Danzig thanks for the great info. Yeah they made
a little score only 5 Mil, not to shabby

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yeah, Rock Hard Ten really sucked. He only won 5 graded stakes races in a row: He won the Swaps(Grade II), then the Malibu(Grade I), then the Strub(Grade II), then the SA Handicap(Grade I), then the Goodwood(Grade II).

I guess you're right. All he had was good looks. He only won 5 graded stakes races in a row at distances ranging anwhere from 7 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles. I can't figure out why people thought he was a good horse.

Lol. Yes, It's baffling isn't it.