Most Underrated of 2006

[Gander]

Go easy on Bernardini. What exactly has he done wrong? He ran a very good
2nd to Invasor (a very good horse in his own right) in the BC Classic.
People act like he ran as bad as Lava Man. Who knows what would have happened if JJ had made that move 10-15 seconds later?

Discreet Cat has looked like a machine but lets face it, hasnt he had one cupcake trip after another against short, not so super fields? Silver Train and Badge of Silver are credible animals but no superstars.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I haven't noticed "Bernardini fans jumping to DC" ---if anything, the people who crowned Bernardini all seem to have shifted to Invasor...and, to a lesser extent, Barbaro. Which is why Invasor is a shoe-in for Horse of the Year.

A lot of the people that jumped from the Bernimafia over to Discreet Cat right after the BC have gone into hiding since. The majority of the bandwagon exchanging was before you came on here and those people have kept quiet since.

To the people mentioning Premium Tap I think he's come full circle. He's gone from one of the most underrated horses out there to one who is actually slightly overrated at this point. It is like those athletes that people start calling underrated until everyone is calling them the most underrated in the sport at which point it is pretty much impossible for them to still qualify as underrated.

[Danzig]

there has been a let down after the bcc regarding all the bernie-mania. he was proven to be very good, as most suspected--he was also proven not to be the super horse some thought him.
i think only a few overrated him with talk of records on demand, winning by daylight in the classic, etc.

[Cajungator26]

[quote=SniperSB23][quote=The Indomitable DrugS]I haven't noticed "Bernardini fans jumping to DC" ---if anything, the people who crowned Bernardini all seem to have shifted to Invasor...and, to a lesser extent, Barbaro. Which is why Invasor is a shoe-in for Horse of the Year.

A lot of the people that jumped from the Bernimafia over to Discreet Cat right after the BC have gone into hiding since. The majority of the bandwagon exchanging was before you came on here and those people have kept quiet since.

To the people mentioning Premium Tap I think he's come full circle. He's gone from one of the most underrated horses out there to one who is actually slightly overrated at this point. It is like those athletes that people start calling underrated until everyone is calling them the most underrated in the sport at which point it is pretty much impossible for them to still qualify as underrated.

Sniper, IMO, he was underrated at least until the BCC (that means the majority of 2006.) I don't know about you, but I tossed him in the classic...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Sniper, IMO, he was underrated at least until the BCC (that means the majority of 2006.) I don't know about you, but I tossed him in the classic...

Yeah, he was definitely underrated until then but after running 3rd there and then toying with the Clark field I feel like people think somehow the Clark means he is the best returning horse next year. I think he is among the best but that distinction goes to Invasor with Premium Tap and Discreet Cat battling it out for the second spot. And yes, I played the superfecta with Invasor and Bernardini in the top two spots and four horses (including Giacomo) in the bottom two spots and foolishly left Premium Tap out since I convinced myself he'd get too much dirt kicked in his face to be effective. Not my best moment.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Yeah, he was definitely underrated until then but after running 3rd there and then toying with the Clark field I feel like people think somehow the Clark means he is the best returning horse next year. I think he is among the best but that distinction goes to Invasor with Premium Tap and Discreet Cat battling it out for the second spot. And yes, I played the superfecta with Invasor and Bernardini in the top two spots and four horses (including Giacomo) in the bottom two spots and foolishly left Premium Tap out since I convinced myself he'd get too much dirt kicked in his face to be effective. Not my best moment.

You sound like me... I boxed Invasor, Dini, Giacomo and Perfect Drift. I was convinced of the same thing. Oh well...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Gander

Discreet Cat has looked like a machine but lets face it, hasnt he had one cupcake trip after another against short, not so super fields? Silver Train and Badge of Silver are credible animals but no superstars.

Discreet Cat has actually had four rather difficult trips in his six lifetime starts.

His debut win at Saratoga and the Jerome being the two races where you can say that he won with easy trips.

His trip was far from easy in the UAE Derby---his trip downright AWFUL in the 2nd start of his career, and in his Saratoga allowance win.

I wouldn't say he had a bad trip in the Cigar Mile...I would call it an unideal trip through. Having his hand forced early, getting caught in between horses briefly, while sparring for the lead through fast fractions. Badge of Silver had a dream stalk-no-go trip behind the pace that day...his trip was MUCH better than DC's.

Silver Train and Badge of Silver are both very talented older males when they are right. Not that I'm a weight guy or anything, but they both also were given a nice weight concession. I believe Discreet Cat became the first 3-year-old, since the 80's, to win a Grade 1 against older males, while GIVING the older males weight. Easy Goer's Whitney being the last such time that has happened I believe.

Steve Davidowitz, who is someone that belives weight is extrmely overrated, famously said in his popular book Betting Thoroughbreds that 'Any 3-year-old giving weight to older horses is an absolute bet against.' So, I think people are being way too critical of Discreet Cat for not looking a lot more impressive in the Cigar.

Over the years, many 3-year-olds have been humbled by older horses thought lesser. It was Onion and Prove Out for Secretariat in '73. He lost two of his three dirt races against older males.

[Gander]

his trip downright AWFUL in the 2nd start of his career, and in his Saratoga allowance win.

I dont recall him having a difficult trip at all this summer at Saratoga. Please explain how you consider that an awful trip. His maiden win last summer wasnt the best of trips but certainly not memorabl in terms of all that difficult to overcome. Did anybody come out of that race to amount to anything?

Silver Train is a Belmont specialist. Take him away from there and hes mediocre. Badge of Silver was making 2nd off a huge layoff, off a very nice effort in the BC on grass. Both horses ran creditable.

Look, I am not saying Discreet Cat isnt very, very good. He is. But lets be fair about bashing Bernardini, a horse who has done very little wrong this year. At least he took on the best of the best and put in a very good showing. Its not like he got killed.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Gander

his trip downright AWFUL in the 2nd start of his career, and in his Saratoga allowance win.

I dont recall him having a difficult trip at all this summer at Saratoga. Please explain how you consider that an awful trip. His maiden win last summer wasnt the best of trips but certainly not memorabl in terms of all that difficult to overcome. Did anybody come out of that race to amount to anything?

Silver Train is a Belmont specialist. Take him away from there and hes mediocre. Badge of Silver was making 2nd off a huge layoff, off a very nice effort in the BC on grass. Both horses ran creditable.

Look, I am not saying Discreet Cat isnt very, very good. He is. But lets be fair about bashing Bernardini, a horse who has done very little wrong this year. At least he took on the best of the best and put in a very good showing. Its not like he got killed.

I agree, Gander. I was more impressed with Bernardini in the BCC than the rest of his races... I'm just disappointed that we won't get to see him run next year.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Gander

his trip downright AWFUL in the 2nd start of his career, and in his Saratoga allowance win.

I dont recall him having a difficult trip at all this summer at Saratoga. Please explain how you consider that an awful trip.

Basically, for starters, he was stoutly rated back behind the early pace. The 2nd place horse in that race, who would win a Graded Stake race a few months later...was on the pace, through early fractions that were SLOWER than those set by a wire-to-wire MCL winner at the same distance, an hour earlier on in the day.

Basically, Discreet Cat had to rally 4-to-5 wide around the turn, from about 6th position, into the teeth of comically slow early fractions, after having been rated stoutly behind the pace in his first start off a good sized layoff.

That, my friend, is a very tough trip...and that should be very clear to even the most trip challenged of people.

Discreet Cat won that race as stylish and easy as possible, his final time was the fastest at the distace all meet long at Saratoga, and was the fastest at the distance in like 3 years...he exploded through the stretch, and all the while his jockey was looking all over for competiton. It was an insane effort.

Obviously a better individual performance than his romp in Dubai over Simpatico Bribon and Invasor....or his Cigar Mile win where he equaled Easy Goer's track record, and wasn't far off the Dr. Fager's world record.

[Gander]

Yes true, but a horse of his caliber going 4 or 5 wide is no big deal when facing the gerbils that were lined up for him that day. The names elude me but that was a pathetic bunch. One horse was even actually bet down to like 5/1 if I recall. What was his name?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

When race circumstances are considerd, on that day, Discreet Cat made a future Graded Stake winner look like a $5,000 claimer, who belongs at Penn National.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Gander

Yes true, but a horse of his caliber going 4 or 5 wide is no big deal when facing the gerbils that were lined up for him that day. The names elude me but that was a pathetic bunch. One horse was even actually bet down to like 5/1 if I recall. What was his name?

Going wide on the far turn is very overated...unless you are going wide into the teeth of very slow fractions...in those circumstances...going wide on the far turn is TOUGH!

You are right though, he wasn't passing great horses. I think the Dutrow runner for IEAH Stables was the 2nd choice. The Storm Cat that came from Europe

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The Sham Stakes really ought to be renamed the DrugS Stakes. I would surely fly out to So. Cal and award the trophey each year.

That could all be arranged.....would you like an extended stay?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

My vote goes to D Money's 2nd win of the Saratoga meet, in the very last race on closing day. He was a zip code behind on the far turn but managed to pass the entire field in the stretch.

What a way to end the meet!

cuz you had him...LOL

[Gander]

Yes that had something to do with it

Hey, give a brotha a break. Yo yo yo, word.

If only Southern Africa could have won that race at Delmar going off 10 minutes later, the race we couldnt see because NYRA was in too big of a rush to get back downstate. That was the race Sinister Minister was a beaten favorite (his comeback).

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Basically, for starters, he was stoutly rated back behind the early pace. The 2nd place horse in that race, who would win a Graded Stake race a few months later...was on the pace, through early fractions that were SLOWER than those set by a wire-to-wire MCL winner at the same distance, an hour earlier on in the day.

Basically, Discreet Cat had to rally 4-to-5 wide around the turn, from about 6th position, into the teeth of comically slow early fractions, after having been rated stoutly behind the pace in his first start off a good sized layoff.
That, my friend, is a very tough trip...and that should be very clear to even the most trip challenged of people.

Discreet Cat won that race as stylish and easy as possible, his final time was the fastest at the distace all meet long at Saratoga, and was the fastest at the distance in like 3 years...he exploded through the stretch, and all the while his jockey was looking all over for competiton. It was an insane effort.

Obviously a better individual performance than his romp in Dubai over Simpatico Bribon and Invasor....or his Cigar Mile win where he equaled Easy Goer's track record, and wasn't far off the Dr. Fager's world record.

Comically slow? The pace was FASTER than average for optional claimers, and he sat behind two hopelessly overmatched duelers until the 1/2 mile pole. You make it sound like a Derby hell trip. It was a joke of a race and he destroyed a sh!t field, big deal.

[blackthroatedwind]

DrugS has an irrational love for Discreet Cat. Luckily, it's his only fault.

[Gander]

I think D Money could take Discreet Cat if the race was 6F at Saratoga and there were more than 4 horses in the field.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

Yes that had something to do with it

Hey, give a brotha a break. Yo yo yo, word.

If only Southern Africa could have won that race at Delmar going off 10 minutes later, the race we couldnt see because NYRA was in too big of a rush to get back downstate. That was the race Sinister Minister was a beaten favorite (his comeback).

and then you insisted we go to that dump Saratoga harness place to play Mountianeer