New Congressman Thinks Quran Thumps Constitution

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Here is a quote from the article:

That would make alcohol illegal. It would make homosexuality illegal. I don't even know what the punishment for homosexuality is in Islam. I believe it's imprisonment or possibly even death.

I have said before, fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam are more alike than they are different. Other than their choice of prophet, their adherents pretty much want exactly the same things- dead gays, no fun vices and women uneducated, pregnant and in bee-keeper suits. Woohoo! Good times.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

By the way, did you read that this guy failed to pay more than 40 parking tickets and had his driver's license suspended twice. He also failed to pay his taxes which resulted in liens being put on his home. You could argue that this guy shows a pattern of disrespect for US laws.

Hey, Rupert, heard about this guy named Jack Abramoff? And this guy named DeLay? I hear they really respect US laws, too... did they ever have any influence in government, do you know?

I think parking tickets and property tax are city and state laws. While it's a dumbass thing to do, and clearly he got busted for it, it's not showing disrespect for federal law.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I have said before, fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam are more alike than they are different. Other than their choice of prophet, their adherents pretty much want exactly the same things- dead gays, no fun vices and women uneducated, pregnant and in bee-keeper suits. Woohoo! Good times.

GR: I disagree heartily! The BABBOONS who prance around on TV are hardly true reps for the Gospel. And the those inbreds who show up at funerals will be sorely mistaken when they get to the "Pearly Gates" Any radical faction is bad, and I don't think we should dismiss Islamic extremists lightly. This is a completely new animal..with new and agressive agendas. Extremists in France are burning 112 cars a day and Muslims in Germany have set a goal of controlling the country by 2015. That's scary,by anyones' logic!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Here is a quote from the article:

"But within days of being elected, Ellison held a workshop on politics for a group closely affiliated with a radical Islamic school that preaches no Muslim can pledge loyalty to the Constitution or make laws outside the laws of the Quran, which the school's leaders assert is the "supreme law" of the land, trumping all man-made laws including the U.S. Constitution."

Brian, This guy's campaign was backed by CAIR. The founder of that group believes the Quran should replace the Constitution. That would make alcohol illegal. It would make homosexuality illegal. I don't even know what the punishment for homosexuality is in Islam. I believe it's imprisonment or possibly even death.

You know, I'm not that worried nor am I really going to dig into this guy's history. I imagine if he was actually dangerous that much of this would have surfaced before the vote. From the conversations that I've had on the other forum regarding this issue -- it's all just a bunch of crap dressed up as concern for our country. It has everything to do with him being a Muslim. If he were actually patently radical and/or dangerous, there is no chance in hell he would have been elected.

Look on the bright side -- let's say I'm wrong. Let's say he's as radical as they come, let's say he's a Bin Laden in a Congressman's clothing. Let's say all that you're so worried about is true. What the hell is he going to do about it? Are we really worried that the power of his vote (which mind you, accounts for roughly two-tenths of ONE percent of the entire House of Representatives) is going to Islamicize this country? Are we really worried that his two-tenths of one percent is going to outlaw alcohol and punish homosexuals with death?

A classic case of the Christian right forgetting about the proverbial "bigger fish to fry."

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I have said before, fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam are more alike than they are different. Other than their choice of prophet, their adherents pretty much want exactly the same things- dead gays, no fun vices and women uneducated, pregnant and in bee-keeper suits. Woohoo! Good times.

You are so completely wrong it is ridiculous.

You think that fundamentalist Christians want gays dead? How could you make such an outrageous statement? It is incredible. Do you think that a lot of fundamentalist Christians want gays dead or would advocate violence towards gay people? That is crazy. I know some very religious Christians. None of them want gays to die.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Hey, Rupert, heard about this guy named Jack Abramoff? And this guy named DeLay? I hear they really respect US laws, too... did they ever have any influence in government, do you know?

I think parking tickets and property tax are city and state laws. While it's a dumbass thing to do, and clearly he got busted for it, it's not showing disrespect for federal law.

I think that's a diffeent issue. This guy has also "racked up hefty fines from campaign finance violations". I didn't even bring that up because that is another issue. I can't call him out on that because there are tons of guys from both parties that do that.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

You know, I'm not that worried nor am I really going to dig into this guy's history. I imagine if he was actually dangerous that much of this would have surfaced before the vote. From the conversations that I've had on the other forum regarding this issue -- it's all just a bunch of crap dressed up as concern for our country. It has everything to do with him being a Muslim. If he were actually patently radical and/or dangerous, there is no chance in hell he would have been elected.

Look on the bright side -- let's say I'm wrong. Let's say he's as radical as they come, let's say he's a Bin Laden in a Congressman's clothing. Let's say all that you're so worried about is true. What the hell is he going to do about it? Are we really worried that the power of his vote (which mind you, accounts for roughly two-tenths of ONE percent of the entire House of Representatives) is going to Islamicize this country? Are we really worried that his two-tenths of one percent is going to outlaw alcohol and punish homosexuals with death?

A classic case of the Christian right forgetting about the proverbial "bigger fish to fry."

I find it curious that you'd speak for a group that you have no idealogical leanings invested. Your last line makes no sense at all!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I find it curious that you'd speak for a group that you have no idealogical leanings invested. Your last line makes no sense at all!

what???

i seriously don't get what your saying.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR: I disagree heartily! The BABOONS who prance around on TV are hardly true reps for the Gospel. And the those inbreds who show up at funerals will be sorely mistaken when they get to the "Pearly Gates" Any radical faction is bad, and I don't think we should dismiss Islamic extremists lightly. This is a completely new animal..with new and agressive agendas. Extremists in France are burning 112 cars a day and Muslims in Germany have set a goal of controlling the country by 2015. That's scary,by anyones' logic!

Timm, first of all, review my post where I say "fundamentalist Christians." Of course I don't think they are your average Christian, anymore than I think fundy Muslems are the average Muslem. That's just crazy talk. But I disagree with you about propensity for violence-- there are doctors dead at the hands of fundamentalist Christians, 180 dead Oklahomans thanks to a right-wing Christian, and several dead young gay men at the hands of Christians, and that's just in our country. Do you want to discuss Bosnia and the Christians killing Moslems there? Remember?

I do agree with you that Islam is facing a more obvious crisis right now-- it has based much of its identity on staying true to the past, and now it is smack up against a secularized modernity and the result currently ain't pretty. But fundamentalism in any faith is bad, and if we are to have the moral high ground in condemning fundamentalism in a minority faith in this nation, we jolly well better be just as harsh on fundamentalists in the majority faith in this country. Right now we accuse one of terrorism and turn a blind eye to the other. But killing someone because you think you're doing God's will is terrorism, no matter who your prophet is. And, to get back to the point of the article Rupert posted, we do have many, many people in elected and appointed federal office with some pretty skewed views on Christianity. But it's only when someone who may or may not have a skewed view in another faith gets elected that the media freaks out.

Speaking of folks with skewed views, anyone see that picture of John Ashcroft underneath the once-again unrobed statue of Justice? I've never been so happy to see a bare hooter.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Timm, first of all, review my post where I say "fundamentalist Christians." Of course I don't think they are your average Christian, anymore than I think fundy Muslems are the average Muslem. That's just crazy talk. But I disagree with you about propensity for violence-- there are doctors dead at the hands of fundamentalist Christians, 180 dead Oklahomans thanks to a right-wing Christian, and several dead young gay men at the hands of Christians, and that's just in our country. Do you want to discuss Bosnia and the Christians killing Moslems there? Remember?

I do agree with you that Islam is facing a more obvious crisis right now-- it has based much of its identity on staying true to the past, and now it is smack up against a secularized modernity and the result currently ain't pretty. But fundamentalism in any faith is bad, and if we are to have the moral high ground in condemning fundamentalism in a minority faith in this nation, we jolly well better be just as harsh on fundamentalists in the majority faith in this country. Right now we accuse one of terrorism and turn a blind eye to the other. But killing someone because you think you're doing God's will is terrorism, no matter who your prophet is. And, to get back to the point of the article Rupert posted, we do have many, many people in elected and appointed federal office with some pretty skewed views on Christianity. But it's only when someone who may or may not have a skewed view in another faith gets elected that the media freaks out.

Speaking of folks with skewed views, anyone see that picture of John Ashcroft underneath the once-again unrobed statue of Justice? I've never been so happy to see a bare hooter.

GR: I am a fundamentalist Christian and I don't condone bombing clinic(maybe PP)and if you're talking about McVeigh,you might as well talk about the right wing militias too. Do you throw all people in the "Christian bucket" unless thety profess otherwise? The analogy doesn't ring true. The examples of extremism are true stories and on a much larger scale than the ever dangerous "pro-life" movement! If you'll read my previous post on the swearing -in ceremony,you'll understand it's much ado about nothing!

[Downthestretch55]

GR,
Bee keepers. LOL!

And this:
Speaking of folks with skewed views, anyone see that picture of John Ashcroft underneath the once-again unrobed statue of Justice? I've never been so happy to see a bare hooter.


ROTFLMAO!!!!

Check out the last entry in celeb matches in "esoteric"...be sure to read all of Barney speak in the link.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

what???

i seriously don't get what your saying.

Brian: It's pretty simple...you don't espouse the beliefs of the Christian right,but you feel free to speak for them as to how they feel or what they think?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Brian: It's pretty simple...you don't espouse the beliefs of the Christian right,but you feel free to speak for them as to how they feel or what they think?

I don't claim to speak for them, I never had, I never will. I'm not sure what part of my post you interpreted as such a claim -- but whichever part it was...it was terribly misinterpreted.

[Downthestretch55]

Although I personally believe in the teachings of Jesus, I do not belong to any "religion".
Seems to me that radical Islamic people (Islamo-Fascists) are just about as scarey as these..Christian-fascists.
Read it all first..comment later.
http://www.countercurrents.org/us-santos061106.htm

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

You know, I'm not that worried nor am I really going to dig into this guy's history. I imagine if he was actually dangerous that much of this would have surfaced before the vote. From the conversations that I've had on the other forum regarding this issue -- it's all just a bunch of crap dressed up as concern for our country. It has everything to do with him being a Muslim. If he were actually patently radical and/or dangerous, there is no chance in hell he would have been elected.

Look on the bright side -- let's say I'm wrong. Let's say he's as radical as they come, let's say he's a Bin Laden in a Congressman's clothing. Let's say all that you're so worried about is true. What the hell is he going to do about it? Are we really worried that the power of his vote (which mind you, accounts for roughly two-tenths of ONE percent of the entire House of Representatives) is going to Islamicize this country? Are we really worried that his two-tenths of one percent is going to outlaw alcohol and punish homosexuals with death?

A classic case of the Christian right forgetting about the proverbial "bigger fish to fry."

Brian: your quote is listed above....A classic case.... you are speaking about how they think(presuming to know) So how can you do that if you dont think like them or believe in what you think they espouse? It is pretty hard to misinrpret a one liner!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Brian: your quote is listed above....A classic case.... you are speaking about how they think(presuming to know) So how can you do that if you dont think like them or believe in what you think they espouse? It is pretty hard to misinrpret a one liner!

The only thing in that entire quote that has anything to do with the Christian right is the last line, and so I will address that.

It has nothing to do with how they think -- it is how I view the priorities of the Christian right and their politics.

Note that this whole uproar is really only coming from the far Christian right. There aren't a whole lot of liberals complaining that this man wants to take his ceremonial oath on the Quran, because there is no harm in it unless it's a religious objection. With that said, I liken it to gay marriage. I view their priorities, as projected in the press releases they put out, the columns they write, and the legislation they champion - as skewed.

Be against gay marriage, totally their prerogative. But don't focus all of the group's political clout on that issue when kids are starving and uninsured. Go ahead and be wildly afraid that ONE Muslim congressman is going to somehow overthrow the Constitution and waste resources attacking him when poverty runs rampant in the very same peoples' backyards.

That to me, is the classic case of the Christian right chasing stupid issues that don't REALLY affect anyone, or anyone's way of life -- when the proverbial "bigger fish to fry" are sitting there totally untouched because the group's political energy and clout is being squandered worrying about the little fish, aka gay marriage and now this ridiculous little flap over the Quran.


Now, if you still believe I am attempting to speak for the Christian right, please let me know where and I can clarify further because it's the furthest from what I am trying to do. I hope this cleared that up.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The only thing in that entire quote that has anything to do with the Christian right is the last line, and so I will address that.

It has nothing to do with how they think -- it is how I view the priorities of the Christian right and their politics.

Note that this whole uproar is really only coming from the far Christian right. There aren't a whole lot of liberals complaining that this man wants to take his ceremonial oath on the Quran, because there is no harm in it unless it's a religious objection. With that said, I liken it to gay marriage. I view their priorities, as projected in the press releases they put out, the columns they write, and the legislation they champion - as skewed.

Be against gay marriage, totally their prerogative. But don't focus all of the group's political clout on that issue when kids are starving and uninsured. Go ahead and be wildly afraid that ONE Muslim congressman is going to somehow overthrow the Constitution and waste resources attacking him when poverty runs rampant in the very same peoples' backyards.

That to me, is the classic case of the Christian right chasing stupid issues that don't REALLY affect anyone, or anyone's way of life -- when the proverbial "bigger fish to fry" are sitting there totally untouched because the group's political energy and clout is being squandered worrying about the little fish, aka gay marriage and now this ridiculous little flap over the Quran.

I believe they think in extremely skewed, and often hateful ways -- and since I am incapable of doing that, it would actually be impossible for me to try to speak for them.

Now, if you still believe I am attempting to speak for the Christian right, please let me know where and I can clarify further because it's the furthest from what I am trying to do. I hope this cleared that up.

Brian, what denomination are you?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by GPK

Brian, what denomination are you?

I belong to a Christian Reformed Church.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The only thing in that entire quote that has anything to do with the Christian right is the last line, and so I will address that.

It has nothing to do with how they think -- it is how I view the priorities of the Christian right and their politics.

Note that this whole uproar is really only coming from the far Christian right. There aren't a whole lot of liberals complaining that this man wants to take his ceremonial oath on the Quran, because there is no harm in it unless it's a religious objection. With that said, I liken it to gay marriage. I view their priorities, as projected in the press releases they put out, the columns they write, and the legislation they champion - as skewed.

Be against gay marriage, totally their prerogative. But don't focus all of the group's political clout on that issue when kids are starving and uninsured. Go ahead and be wildly afraid that ONE Muslim congressman is going to somehow overthrow the Constitution and waste resources attacking him when poverty runs rampant in the very same peoples' backyards.

That to me, is the classic case of the Christian right chasing stupid issues that don't REALLY affect anyone, or anyone's way of life -- when the proverbial "bigger fish to fry" are sitting there totally untouched because the group's political energy and clout is being squandered worrying about the little fish, aka gay marriage and now this ridiculous little flap over the Quran.


Now, if you still believe I am attempting to speak for the Christian right, please let me know where and I can clarify further because it's the furthest from what I am trying to do. I hope this cleared that up.

Brian: please note that the article link is from WorldNewsDaily...hardly a Christian right wing site! So...what we have is you speaking about the Christian right reacting to Ellison and the Quoran...which is not what happened! So...once again your bias shows through. You can be what ever you want to Brian...gay,liberal,muslim,Rastafarian...please..j ust know what you talking about when you pretend to know what somebody is about!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

From the conversations that I've had on the other forum regarding this issue -- it's all just a bunch of crap dressed up as concern for our country. It has everything to do with him being a Muslim. If he were actually patently radical and/or dangerous, there is no chance in hell he would have been elected.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Brian: please note that the article link is from WorldNewsDaily...hardly a Christian right wing site! So...what we have is you speaking about the Christian right reacting to Ellison and the Quoran...which is not what happened! So...once again your bias shows through. You can be what ever you want to Brian...gay,liberal,muslim,Rastafarian...please..j ust know what you talking about when you pretend to know what somebody is about!

I apologize if this link is considered the definitive source for this debate. This one story? Note the bold text in the original post. I began by referencing my experience on a Christian message board, and the links posted there and the research I have done has shown that it is generally the Christian right that is worried about this. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't actually recollect making any judgment about this news source's partisan or religious affiliation. So you're accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about, and here I will accuse you of the same. You're implying that I have branded World News Daily as a right-wing Christian group. I am talking about the Christian right. You are saying that I am including this news source in that umbrella.

That's your injection into what I've written, not what I have actually written.