One more reason why the Phipps family is good for racing

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Danzig,
I'm really not sure of the answer either. There are different ways of thinking.
As far as "drugs" or being used up on the track, I don't think that's necessarily so. The drugs wear off after a few months. Racing doesn't have a lot to do with fertility...that's just my opinion.
As I said, different breeders have different views. Both of my mares raced.
Both won. And both made very nice babies.
You roll the dice, you take your chances.
DTS

like i said, depends on who you ask. i've seen arguments for both sides. seems for every hard-raced blue hen mare, you have the counter of hard raced and poor broodmares...and the bluehens who never stepped foot on a track. or the 'slow' mares who breed fast babies. but seems to me, just like in many things, there are no hard and fast rules for what's best for a filly.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I just find the argument that its bad for the breed for the stallion to be "artificially enhanced" while the mare, who is 1/2 of the equation, can be a complete slowpoke silly.

but if a mare doesnt' have to succeed on the track before going to the shed, you're getting an all natural broodmare.
but an enhanced stud...well, how fast would he have been without help? would he have bled? was he on steroids? studs have to prove themselves on the track pretty much. otherwise, you have to support him all on your own, as no one will have heard of him. so they have to go out on the track and give it all they've got--or all the vet has!

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

but if a mare doesnt' have to succeed on the track before going to the shed, you're getting an all natural broodmare.
but an enhanced stud...well, how fast would he have been without help? would he have bled? was he on steroids? studs have to prove themselves on the track pretty much. otherwise, you have to support him all on your own, as no one will have heard of him. so they have to go out on the track and give it all they've got--or all the vet has!

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year...if she su cks she'll weed herself out of the herd after a couple of foals...if the stud su cks well then there are that many more surpluss foals...
And IMHO I think the fact that a lot of super running mares can't come close to reproducing themselves shows you which mares had some extra vet help.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year...if she su cks she'll weed herself out of the herd after a couple of foals...if the stud su cks well then there are that many more surpluss foals...
And IMHO I think the fact that a lot of super running mares can't come close to reproducing themselves shows you which mares had some extra vet help.

I think that it would be presumptious to say that a mare who was a top class runner that was not a good producer had extra vet help. Same with stallions. Look at a horse like Lemon Drop Kid. Top class horse who seemingly was not trained by a "move up" trainer but seems hard pressed to replicate himself as a stallion. Was he enhanced as a runner? I think not. He seems to be passing on traits from his sire, Kingmambo, namely turfy types. Same with Skip Away. It has nothing to do with drugs it is genetics which are always much clearer 30 years down the road in hindsight.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year.

I would hardly think the 50 or so mares that a bad ass stallion will produce a year will negatively affect a horse population of roughly 125,000?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think that it would be presumptious to say that a mare who was a top class runner that was not a good producer had extra vet help. Same with stallions. Look at a horse like Lemon Drop Kid. Top class horse who seemingly was not trained by a "move up" trainer but seems hard pressed to replicate himself as a stallion. Was he enhanced as a runner? I think not. He seems to be passing on traits from his sire, Kingmambo, namely turfy types. Same with Skip Away. It has nothing to do with drugs it is genetics which are always much clearer 30 years down the road in hindsight.

perhaps i should have said might have had help...and I think in some cases it is true...but as i said it's just my opinion. And I think Skip Away's opportunity as a stallion has suffered from his lack of fashionable pedigree.
genetics are obviously the determining factor and for to understand how genes express themselves it takes generations of a population...however it is that much harder to make a determination when runners are enhanced.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would hardly think the 50 or so mares that a bad ass stallion will produce a year will negatively affect a horse population of roughly 125,000?

my point was simply that a single mare will have far less impact overall than a stud can potentially.

[Rileyoriley]

Devil His Due raced 40 times drug free and I think More Than Ready is turning out to be a decent sire. Personally I like the Halo line but I know it isn't real popular with breeders. Deb

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Devil His Due raced 40 times drug free and I think More Than Ready is turning out to be a decent sire. Personally I like the Halo line but I know it isn't real popular with breeders. Deb

describe drug free

[repent]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Devil His Due raced 40 times drug free and I think More Than Ready is turning out to be a decent sire. Personally I like the Halo line but I know it isn't real popular with breeders. Deb

yeah,
which is why SSilence is in Japan I guess.
yeah, we sure didnt need any of that blood in this country.
how unfortunate.


Repent

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

You can't.............

http://www.stallionregister.com/sr_s...n=singlesearch

maybe not, but maybe bloodhorse can explain. not the first time i've seen him said to be drug free...but i think it referred to no lasix.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by repent

yeah,
which is why SSilence is in Japan I guess.
yeah, we sure didnt need any of that blood in this country.
how unfortunate.


Repent

i'm not sure sunday silence would have had the same impact here as he did in japan. became a legend, and that suits me fine.

[Rileyoriley]

Devil His Due raced without Lasix and only once with bute. Raced 40 out of 41 times drug free. He also raced 15 times at 3, 11 at 4, 12 at 5, and 3 at 6. Those #'s alone would make me happy to breed a mare to him (if I had one to breed of course). The Halo line also seems to run on both dirt and turf and alot of them seem to have that "fighting spirit" I like.

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Devil His Due raced without Lasix and only once with bute. Raced 40 out of 41 times drug free. He also raced 15 times at 3, 11 at 4, 12 at 5, and 3 at 6. Those #'s alone would make me happy to breed a mare to him (if I had one to breed of course). The Halo line also seems to run on both dirt and turf and alot of them seem to have that "fighting spirit" I like.

He raced drug free in regards to what is listed in the program or DRF 40 of 41 times.

[Rileyoriley]

I'm aware of illegal drugs but I still go by the # of times he raced. You can't hold them together sound-wise and race them that often. The Devil may not have won as much as others but at least he raced full seasons. That is more important to me than horses that can only race 4-6 times a year.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

He raced drug free in regards to what is listed in the program or DRF 40 of 41 times.

Doesn't the absence of Lasix make it significantly tougher to mask any other substances?