Sour grapes???

[pointman]

Originally Posted by iamthelurker

Clearly, someone lost a bet.

He's getting passed by both inside and outside horses coming off the turn while badly getting out (a sign of a tiring horse).

I have seen horses come off the turn be asked for more and go on to win races.

I did lose a bet. And I have every right to be pissed off that the horse I bet was ridden by a jock who made no effort to win the race.

Your conclusion that she would not have finished any better is ridiculous and not supported by the evidence. Nothing on the tape suggests the horse was tiring. Horses get out all the time and win races.

The horse was in position to win the race and was never asked. Real bettors understand that a ride like that has to be questioned. It is not too much to ask a rider to move his arms when in position to win a race. The rules and the integrity of the game demand it.

[iamthelurker]

Originally Posted by pointman

I did lose a bet. And I have every right to be pissed off that the horse I bet was ridden by a jock who made no effort to win the race.

Your conclusion that she would not have finished any better is ridiculous and not supported by the evidence. Nothing on the tape suggests the horse was tiring. Horses get out all the time and win races.

The horse was in position to win the race and was never asked. Real bettors understand that a ride like that has to be questioned. It is not too much to ask a rider to move his arms when in position to win a race. The rules and the integrity of the game demand it.

Hold on, are you saying it was a lazy pile of garbage ride (which I agreed with you on) or are you suggesting that Jose Ortiz made a conscious decision to stiff the horse?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by iamthelurker

The outrage over jockeys who wrap on horses that are going to run off the board is a tricky debate to get into. Is a rider supposed to lay into a tiring horse for the sake of the money placed on that horses efforts? Or is he supposed to take the horses well being and condition coming out of the race into mind. What would the gambler want? What would the trainer/owner want? What is right?

This is why things like this most likely warrant case by case opinions but both gamblers and trainers/owners all only have one scapegoat once the gates open and that's the man risking his life on board.

And really come on guys this Jose Ortiz couldn't even shine Jose Santos or Kent D's boots when it comes to wrapping up on a horse who may have actually ran 2nd instead of 4th.

I have no problem with riders wrapping up on tiring horses. That is not something that I ever complain about. But these two cases looked different. In both of these cases, he is easing horses at the quarter pole. When you see that, you are expecting one of two things. The first possibility is that the horses are lame and are going to be pulled up. The second possibility is that the horses are dead tired and are stopping bad. But neither of those possibilities came to fruition in the two races in question. When you watch those two horses coming down the stretch, they both appeared to be travelling ok and they weren't that tired. Neither horse was really shortening stride. You could see that Gem City Gal still had some run in her.

In fairness to Ortiz, in both of these cases it is possible that these horses just didn't feel right to him. But if I was a steward, I would certainly call him in on both of these cases and get an explanation.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by iamthelurker

Hold on, are you saying it was a lazy pile of garbage ride (which I agreed with you on) or are you suggesting that Jose Ortiz made a conscious decision to stiff the horse?

Does it really matter? The issue is whether Ortiz rode Gem City Gal when she was in a position to win the race. I expect a rider to at the very least to put in an effort to try to win a race.

Is it too much to ask Ortiz to at least move his arms when he has the horse in a position to win the race? The integrity of the game demands that the stewards take action in a situation like this. My point was that if the stewards took no action on Gem City Gal, one cannot expect they would take action on the other race. And that is unfortunate.