Derby '12: Did We Learn Anyhting?

[trackrat59]

I learned to ditch the person I normally go to the track with. Wackjob.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by clambeau

I think the good doctor believes he knows everything already..this thread isn't for him

What does Riot have to do with this thread?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Scofield

Learned Union Rags is more sizzle then steak.

New name, same lame jokes, huh Casino?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

New name, same lame jokes, huh Casino?

That's him? What happened to the El Padrino guy...I thought that was also Casino?

It seemed like every single person who knocks speed figures because they have no understanding of them -- be it on a message board, working in the media, or working as a horsemen -- somehow every single one of them LOVED Union Rags to win the Derby.

It would have been hard to stomach if Union Rags won the race yesterday.

[clambeau]

The BAD NEWS is that the Union Rags Lovefest is not over yet...now it's the jock's fault cuz he had him 18 lengths back going into the CH Turn instead of the desired 6...or that he got "unlucky" and was unable to get into that "big beautiful stride" until it was too late.....why ? Cuz he's just not fast enough !!! The whole UR team from the ol lady to Matz to the fans just cant believe that the darn horse is just not fast enough.

Even if they don't believe in speed figures.....shouldn't they believe their eyes?

[cmorioles]

I was no fan of UR, but Leparoux has an uncanny ability to take the speed out of any horse he rides in the big races.

[clambeau]

Leparoux's and easy goat to blame but Castellano didn't exactly set blazing fractions when he rode him either...This time it's the horse, not the jockey.
(Note I said THIS time)

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by clambeau

Leparoux's and easy goat to blame but Castellano didn't exactly set blazing fractions when he rode him either...This time it's the horse, not the jockey.
(Note I said THIS time)

Probably the trainer too. This horse seems to have had the speed trained out of him.

[letswastemoney]

If Union Rags' odds were a bit more fair, I'd be willing to try using him. I have no faith that I will ever get decent odds on Union Rags though, not with his large fanbase.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Probably the trainer too. This horse seems to have had the speed trained out of him.

Yep.

Leparoux is a passive jockey -- but Matz might have also done too good of a training job with him.

Union Rags went an unblinkered 1/8th in 10.20 at the nations premier 2yo sale. He was the fastest unblinkered male horse at that entire sale. Union Rags went wire-to-wire in the 6.5f Saratoga Special 2nd time out after setting a 21 3/5th first quarter.

Union Rags was one of my absolute highest rated 2yo's from all the 2yo in training sales last year ... and those type of horses are much better sprinters 99% of the time. As much as I don't like to admit it -- Classic distance horses don't ever make that list of mine. Officer and Eightyfiveinafifty types do.

Union Rags is obviously a cool customer and Matz has him so relaxed that he normally breaks slow and looks awfully comfortable rating behind the pace.

Guys like Bill Mott and Neil Howard would have been proud of this training job. It's been a masterpiece of training and horsemanship by Matz.

So good in fact, that's he turned a horse who probably could have been an elite sprinter/miler for most people, into a Dollar Bill type of horse who doesn't break well, relaxes, finds trouble, and doesn't run fast...but always finishes up nicely.

I happen to think Matz trained this one way too good. The Union Rags that I first got to know -- before he was even raced -- looked pretty friggen fast to me.

[clambeau]

Yeah...I don't think Matz is doing UR any favors....Barbaro is the big elephant sittin in that barn, whether anyone admits it or not, and that alone gotta account for a big % of his fan base

I hear over & over..."He knows how to get a horse prepped to win the Derby"....No, he knew how to get Barbaro prepped to win the Derby...

Maybe he'll win another down the road but right now, that barn is goin in the wrong direction..

Let the hate mail begin, eh..

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by clambeau

I hear over & over..."He knows how to get a horse prepped to win the Derby"....No, he knew how to get Barbaro prepped to win the Derby...

I'm not even sure about that. The horse was just that good that it didn't matter.

[TheSpyder]

I learned that my mother in law, at 86, can drink with the rest of them.....and me!

[clambeau]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm not even sure about that. The horse was just that good that it didn't matter.

I didn't want to say it, but since you did....I have to agree

[clambeau]

If we take away the Barbaro factor....we take away the plane crash deal....we take away Matz's Equestrian medals...we take away the ol cigar-smokin lady in the scooter......Does Union Rags odds go from 9/2 to 10 or 12-1? Seems strange but I thiink they do....and none of those things has anything to do with Union Rags....it all seems strange to me

I learned that there's not gonna be a TC winner this year again. Baffert will have to settle for 2/3 like he did with Real Quiet.

[Dahoss]

I learned I need to read boards less during the triple crown.

Union Rags got bet because of Michael Matz' medals?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I learned I need to read boards less during the triple crown.

Union Rags got bet because of Michael Matz' medals?

You wouldn't have learned about the handicapping exploits of the Dr. Phil Horsey Psychiatrist

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm not even sure about that. The horse was just that good that it didn't matter.

Exactly!

I thought the only way Barbaro would lose the Derby is if his trainer got him beat.

That horse was a lot better than most people realized.