Perry is STILL right: Social Security is a loser - Page 2

Antitrust32 · #21 09-13-2011, 06:33 PM

yep thats it

Antitrust32 · #22 09-13-2011, 06:34 PM

the federal responsibility has become WAY out of hand... it is nothing like what our founding fathers hoped for.

Riot · #23 09-13-2011, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

the federal responsibility has become WAY out of hand... it is nothing like what our founding fathers hoped for.

Blah, blah, vague generality, blah, blah, anger and name-calling, blah blah.

Sorry. I've lost interest in you.

joeydb · #24 09-13-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Blah, blah, vague generality, blah, blah, anger and name-calling, blah blah.

Sorry. I've lost interest in you.

OK, I'm convinced.

So it is a TAX, right? Since it's NOT a retirement or investment program. Why then is everyone so interested in defending this tax?

The program sucks. It should be OPTIONAL. Let people out of it. Write them a check for everything they had stolen from them over the years - even without interest, they will make out better than actually collecting payments later. That's how much of a pig this program is.

Danzig · #25 09-13-2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Wow, it's pretty cut and dried in young pretend idealistic libertarian-land, isn't it?

Nice to know you're on that bandwagon of selfishness that would allow the 30-year-old uninsured in a coma to die

- my, you sure sound like a complaining entitlement seeker!

Oh, it's hard to live the purity of "Atlas Shrugged" in real life.

I'm so sorry you had the unfortunate accident of birth, to be born in the United States of America. A place where we decided, years ago as a society, to stop widows and orphans from dying in poverty with Social Security, and where our founding fathers determined that, in order to create a union that had a basis to hold together, we would create the income tax.

Poor, poor, libertarians. Terrible enough life in the United States to bitch about this country, not terrible enough to leave and lose the benefits of living here.

You think you don't "get something" for your tax monies? You ungrateful, unpatriotic user. I suggest you move elsewhere and see what you get when you pay no taxes at all. Try a third world country. Nobody is holding you here to suffer under our oppressive moral and ethical system of social responsibility. You stay voluntarily. Oh, and we are one of the few countries where you can, indeed, come and go at will. Not to mention publicly rail with impunity against your government.

You want to blame someone regarding Social Security, blame St. Reagan, who screamed about the imminent demise of Social Security back in the 1980's, causing Congress to raise your payroll contribution from 3.1 % to 6.2%, while at the same time, declaring any income over $103,000 didn't have to pay any tax.

Yes St. Ronnie Reagan, the original "tax the poor, gift the rich" with the publics money.

Much more worthy to scream about, don't you think? The unfairness of that?

You might be interested in the Democratic party, who want to cut the payroll tax back to 3.1% for everyone, and take the cap off allowing the wealthy to not pay on monies over a certain amount. That would, you know, make Social Security solvent for ... forever ... and allow benefits to be raised for everyone, like other first world countries that care about their own.

It's strange that you have come on here repeatedly supporting your oppressors, like Rick Perry, not the people more in line with your stated political philosophies. I think you'd support a party that wanted to halve your payroll taxes. Over the people that want to take all your money, and give it to their Wall Street buddies to steal from you.

There is a similarity between "liberal" and "libertarian" that has obviously bypassed your ken.

And if you think people would have "money to burn" if they had been able to put their money into private investments, rather than have paid into social security - I will point out the obvious absurdity and proven falsehood of that statement, considering the market turns of the past 10 years, and how it took over 1/3 from many retirees and near-retirees investment accounts.

the founding fathers didnt enact an income tax.
as for saying 'if you dont like it here, leave' i have never understood that rationale. everyone has a right to say what they agree or disagree with, like or dislike, about this country. its our country after all, right? of, for, by the people, not just the people who share your opinion!

clyde · #26 09-13-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

the founding fathers didnt enact an income tax.
as for saying 'if you dont like it here, leave' i have never understood that rationale. everyone has a right to say what they agree or disagree with, like or dislike, about this country. its our country after all, right? of, for, by the people, not just the people who share your opinion!

It's about time you said something swell.

Danzig · #27 09-13-2011, 09:59 PM

you think i am swell?! golly, thanks.

clyde · #28 09-13-2011, 10:21 PM

ah ub 'ooo,Banny!!

Riot · #29 09-13-2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeydb

OK, I'm convinced.

So it is a TAX, right? Since it's NOT a retirement or investment program. Why then is everyone so interested in defending this tax?

The program sucks. It should be OPTIONAL. Let people out of it. Write them a check for everything they had stolen from them over the years - even without interest, they will make out better than actually collecting payments later. That's how much of a pig this program is.

That's one opinion.

Another is that no, the program doesn't "suck". It's the most successful social program ever, 100% reliable, has kept millions out of poverty.

This society takes care of it's elders. You don't approve, well, the Supreme Court long ago ruled "too bad" for those that share your opinion. You have to pay in.

That's what living in a democratic Republic entails as your responsibility.

The program does exactly what it was designed to do, and does it very well, and will continue to do so for the next several decades.

You are free to save the 10% you should be saving out of your take home pay on your own, like all responsible people. SS will then only be a just-in-case fallback check by the time you retire, as it is intended to be. You know, like for the folks who had their private retirement funds decreased by 25-30% over the past 10 years. Devastating, when you've worked your whole life, but market crashes and housing crashes ruin one's planning and saving. Good thing this country, like other first world countries, has a social safety net for our seniors.

Riot · #30 09-13-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

the founding fathers didnt enact an income tax.

The founding fathers gave the central government the ability to levy an income tax, and enshrined it in our final constitution, as they realized that the first articles of confederation has nothing of common interest and responsibility to hold the disparate states together.

Quote:

as for saying 'if you dont like it here, leave' i have never understood that rationale.

Either have I, but I've heard it nonstop from the right wing of this country since the late 1960's - especially from Bush the Lesser if anybody dared to question his military decisions - and they are absolutely correct.

Quote:

everyone has a right to say what they agree or disagree with, like or dislike, about this country. its our country after all, right? of, for, by the people, not just the people who share your opinion!

Yup. And as a patriotic American who loves this country, that is exactly why I am expressing that opinion

Danzig · #31 09-14-2011, 06:39 AM

lol
so, you dont understand the rationale of telling others to leave if they think another place would be better, but you go ahead and say it anyway....
and you think you are being patriotic, but the person who disagrees with you is not? that is interesting.

Antitrust32 · #32 09-14-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Blah, blah, vague generality, blah, blah, anger and name-calling, blah blah.

Sorry. I've lost interest in you.

I don't give a $hit about you!

joeydb · #33 09-14-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

That's one opinion.

Another is that no, the program doesn't "suck". It's the most successful social program ever, 100% reliable, has kept millions out of poverty.

This society takes care of it's elders. You don't approve, well, the Supreme Court long ago ruled "too bad" for those that share your opinion. You have to pay in.

That's what living in a democratic Republic entails as your responsibility.

The program does exactly what it was designed to do, and does it very well, and will continue to do so for the next several decades.

You are free to save the 10% you should be saving out of your take home pay on your own, like all responsible people. SS will then only be a just-in-case fallback check by the time you retire, as it is intended to be. You know, like for the folks who had their private retirement funds decreased by 25-30% over the past 10 years. Devastating, when you've worked your whole life, but market crashes and housing crashes ruin one's planning and saving. Good thing this country, like other first world countries, has a social safety net for our seniors.

You're making my point by calling us a "Democratic Republic". Just like East Germany was, huh?

Nice of you to let me save ANOTHER 10% in an attempt to undo the lack of yield from Social Security.

As for its success - yeah - it's successful in keeping people in line, voting for Democrats to "protect" the program. That is exactly what it was designed to do.

joeydb · #34 09-14-2011, 08:49 AM

Here:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...zi_111323.html

Excerpt: "Ponzi! Ponzi! Ponzi! There, I said it. To the extent people believe there are trust funds with their names on them, Social Security is absolutely a Ponzi scheme. So is Medicare. People need to hear it.

Many people think that when the government takes payroll tax from their paychecks, it goes to something like a savings account. Seniors who collect Social Security think they're just getting back money that they put into their "account." Or they think it's like an insurance policy -- you win if you live long enough to get more than you paid in. Neither is true. Nothing is invested. The money taken from you was spent by government that year. Right away. There's no trust fund. The plan is unsustainable. Medicare is worse."

dellinger63 · #35 09-14-2011, 09:12 AM

Obamacare is worse and will only benefit the contributor with an empty promise of lowered health care costs by saving money on uninsured ER costs. Meanwhile every other chumbalone will be subsidized on the backs of families fighting to provide a decent life for their OWN children and themselves.

Money in the pockets of families expected to pay for this must be unstimulated dollars unlike the stimulated dollars put into the pockets of teachers, first responders and the unemployed, again by those trying to provide a decent life for their families. The government needs to stop acting like a parent, get out of the way, and watch this county prosper, like it did for so many years.