Crist on the Farcical World Cup

[the_fat_man]

The real farce is what happens at tracks like the AQU Inner, MTH, and all the other bush dirt tracks in the country.

Maybe that's why WO saw an increase in handle and NYRA tracks lost money, for example. Hard to sway the dirt hardliners, however.

[JerseyJ]

The issue at hand here which I don't think some of you are understanding is not about whether it's a close jumbled finish in the Dubai World Cup or any other race where longshots win or there's a jumbled finish. The issue at hand here is that save for the Breeders Cup Classic which is supposed to be the premier Classic Distance Championship race in the world, the Dubai World Cup with it's purse and history is simply put one of the top races in the world of it's stature, which in the past was on dirt and at the classic distance of 1 1/4. Now with the Breeders Cup having been run on synthetics for the last two years and the Dubai World Cup now being moved to run on Tapeta synthetic, it basically renders the results as being a total crapshoot, due to the fact that these races that are run over the synthetic surfaces will simply lack the top notch horses we want to see (although it's debatable how many top notch horses are left), it robs the sport of star power and popularity, as most outstanding dirt horses are rendered average on these stupid artificial surfaces, therefore enabling European and other synthetic specialist horses to be on par with an outstanding dirt horse on these synethic surfaces, whereas if these races were held on dirt, we would see the top dirt horses in the world facing off against each other instead of the top turf horses in the world facing off against the top synthetic horses in the world. These turf and synthetic runners wouldn't even be competitive on dirt against our top dirt horses. And because these big races get run on synthetics now, we lose the ability of our top dirt horses in some years to run in the former best dirt races in the world.

[pweizer]

There may be something to this but the World Cup, unlike the Breeder's Cup, does actually attract horses from around the world.

I would also once again point out that the superstars weren't exactly out in full force last year when on dirt Well Armed won by a pole.

Paul

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pweizer

There may be something to this but the World Cup, unlike the Breeder's Cup, does actually attract horses from around the world.

I would also once again point out that the superstars weren't exactly out in full force last year when on dirt Well Armed won by a pole.

Paul

The Breeders' Cup doesn't attract horses from around the world? Really? All those milers and turf winners over the years and Sakhee and Giant's Causeway and Swain and Wilco, Arazi and Johannesburg, et al... What were they exactly?

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The Breeders' Cup doesn't attract horses from around the world? Really? All those milers and turf winners over the years and Sakhee and Giant's Causeway and Swain and Wilco, Arazi and Johannesburg, et al... What were they exactly?

Steve, I agree with you, but to his point, other than the Austrailian horse that showed up in the Classic in 2005, I can't seem to recall any non-European horses "from around the world" showing up for the Breeders' Cup...

[tector]

I am very happy that Dubai Inc. went to plastic, because I don't want top American horses going there.

Now if we can go back to dirt for the BC, it will be perfect.

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The Breeders' Cup doesn't attract horses from around the world? Really? All those milers and turf winners over the years and Sakhee and Giant's Causeway and Swain and Wilco, Arazi and Johannesburg, et al... What were they exactly?

The Breeder's Cup does attract horses from Europe. However, the Dubai Carnival gets horses from everywhere. Just off the top of my head, South Africa, Austraila, Japan, Hong Kong and even Norway were represented on yesterday's card. Which Breeder's Cup does that line up resemble?

Paul

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by smuthg

Steve, I agree with you, but to his point, other than the Austrailian horse that showed up in the Classic in 2005, I can't seem to recall any non-European horses "from around the world" showing up for the Breeders' Cup...

That's a function of the calendar. Breeders' Cup is run at an ideal time of the year for North American horses and as a coda to Euro season. The Austal-Asian horses have their own agenda at that time. World Cup comes at an OK time for North Americans if connections are specifically pointing for it seeing as it comes at the beginning of the season 'here'.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pweizer

The Breeder's Cup does attract horses from Europe. However, the Dubai Carnival gets horses from everywhere. Just off the top of my head, South Africa, Austraila, Japan, Hong Kong and even Norway were represented on yesterday's card. Which Breeder's Cup does that line up resemble?

Paul

We should change the entire North American racing calendar to accomodate horses from the Southern Hemisphere? Interesting notion.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Kasept

We should change the entire North American racing calendar to accomodate horses from the Southern Hemisphere? Interesting notion.

It's because of this kind of backwards thinking that Bambera never got a chance to shine in this country.

Shame on you.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's a function of the calendar. Breeders' Cup is run at an ideal time of the year for North American horses and as a coda to Euro season. The Austal-Asian horses have their own agenda at that time. World Cup comes at an OK time for North Americans if connections are specifically pointing for it seeing as it comes at the beginning of the season 'here'.

I understand and I agree. The question did get me thinking about with Japan though? Don't they run on a similiar calendar as N/A racing? We've at least attempted to send some of our popular horses (Lava Man, Summer Bird, etc.) to run in the Japan Cup, but I can't remember a Japanese horse attempting to run in the Breeders' Cup.

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by smuthg

I understand and I agree. The question did get me thinking about with Japan though? Don't they run on a similiar calendar as N/A racing? We've at least attempted to send some of our popular horses (Lava Man, Summer Bird, etc.) to run in the Japan Cup, but I can't remember a Japanese horse attempting to run in the Breeders' Cup.

Japanese horses have come to Hollywood for the American Oaks but that is the only time I can remember.

Paul

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

We should change the entire North American racing calendar to accomodate horses from the Southern Hemisphere? Interesting notion.

No one suggested changing anything of this sort. I think we have gotten far from the original point of this post at this point.

Paul

[JJP]

It should be pointed out that Gloria de Campeo (sp?), the winner of the so-called "best race in the world" came to Arlington last year and got buried by over 9 lengths against Gio Ponti.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by pweizer

Japanese horses have come to Hollywood for the American Oaks but that is the only time I can remember.

Paul

What of Symboli Rudolf?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by pweizer

I have great respect for Mr. Christ but I think he is way off base here.

Jesus H. to you and me.

I am no fan of synthetic surfaces and if I had my way they would all be gone. But, I made good money on the world cup races without throwing darts at a board.

My betting strategy of zero brain power also yielded a profit. Come on man, betting has nothing to do with this. Thoses synthetic races are eyesores to watch.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Kasept

As DougS noted elsewhere talking about yesterday, the World Cup did a great job making itself as marginal as the Lanes' End. Steve Crist succinctly sums it up:

Dubai World Crapshoot
CruistBlog

• The richest horse race in history was staged in Dubai earlier today, and it was a $10 million advertisement for how synthetic surfaces can make a complete mess of so-called world-class championship racing. For all that it proved about the quality of the contestants either individually or as a group, the results of the Dubai World Cup might as well have been drawn out of a hat.
  
  
• Tapeta may well be a lovely training surface, and it has gotten high marks among synthetic tracks, but no one can really explain why anyone needs a third type of horse racing to go along with the dirt and turf racing that has defined the sport and its great horses for centuries. The Maktoums' decision to replace dirt with Tapeta at their gaudy new racing palace was a premature guess that these new surfaces might somehow magically combine dirt and turf racing into one globally-accepted footing. That hasn't happened and isn't going to anytime soon, or probably ever.
  I wouldn't be so sure about that.
  
  
• Instead, it remains entirely unclear what this World Cup proved other than Bob Baffert's adage that synthetic tracks make good horses look ordinary and ordinary horses look good.

That is a blanket statement that could be applied to turf racing and to a lesser degree perhaps to dirt racing (the lower percentage of close finishes.)
By whose measure is a horse great? Turf racing was here long before dirt racing. Quality Road tries turf and fails miserably making the surface of turf a farce because turf racing makes good horses look ordinary and ordinary horses look good.
Sea The Stars comes to Churchill Downs and never picks up his feet against (name any dirt specialist from last year other than Quality Road or Rachel) Summer Bird perhaps or Mine that Bird, making the surface of dirt a farce because dirt racing makes good horses look ordinary and ordinary horses look great.
Seriously, Bullsbay was maybe a length away from being voted top older male last year. Other than Quality Road or Rachel what American dirt superstar would have validated the world cup if it had been run on dirt?
We sent our champion older male from last year over there on a surface he supposedly likes and he failed. Maybe it's because he is not as good as we believe. Or maybe the surface is to blame.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

What is Gloria De Campeao anyway? Like the 15th best horse in the last 10 years to come from Gavea racetrack in Brazil?

I almost feel like firing up google translator and checking in with that writer from there who wanted congress to get involved because everyone was buying up their good horses.

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

What is Gloria De Campeao anyway? Like the 15th best horse in the last 10 years to come from Gavea racetrack in Brazil?

I almost feel like firing up google translator and checking in with that writer from there who wanted congress to get involved because everyone was buying up their good horses.

Gloria certainly can't compare to the last World Cup dirt champion Well Armed. That's for sure. I am not sure Well Armed was the 15th best horse to race at Santa Anita last year.

Knock the World Cup all you want but it can't all be the surface (which is how this thread got started...

Paul

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by pweizer

Gloria certainly can't compare to the last World Cup dirt champion Well Armed. That's for sure.

I know - Well Armed beat him by 14 lengths last year when he was 2nd to him.

Well Armed never had a chance to run on dirt in America... his connections insisted on running him on synthetic tracks even though they hinder his speedy front running sytle.

It's going to happen every year ... the World Cup will always be a $10 million eyesore from now on ... the surface dictates it.