That didnt take long....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Alas, doesn't appear so ...

When a liberal, pro-labor president is only favorable to 58% of Union households, I wouldnt be real proud of that number.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

When a liberal, pro-labor president is only favorable to 58% of Union households, I wouldnt be real proud of that number.

The guy is governing centrist, with plenty of "to the right" consistency with Bush.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Riot

Of course there was. But cutting edge scientific research does so much better with government support, funding and acknowledgment as to it's validity, and when it's not funded equally to creationism

There was government funding and support for stem cell research , is the point you are trying to make about embreyo research and that the feds didnt fund it before . Im sure being as well read as you are scientists are finding that using cord blood and other tissues are proving to be more usefull than embreyo's. Just saying.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

The guy is governing centrist, with plenty of "to the right" consistency with Bush.

Yeah sure he is...

His voting record in the Senate was left of Bernie Sanders, he has expanded the govt in a frightening manner, he has slobbered all over labor unions, he just created a trillion dollar entitlement program, his Supreme Court nominee was admittedly far left of the center....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYP2OFv54sw

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah sure he is...

His voting record in the Senate was left of Bernie Sanders, he has expanded the govt in a frightening manner, he has slobbered all over labor unions, he just created a trillion dollar entitlement program, his Supreme Court nominee was admittedly far left of the center....

His voting record in the Senate isn't what we are talking about, his Presidency is.

"Frightening expansion" is your opinion, certainly not fact, and not really supported by any evidence if you are referring to healthcare reform (not even a public option) Not really sure what "frightening expansion" you are talking about.

The labor union comment is nothing more than a dig.

The "trillion dollar entitlement program" will cut the deficit by quite a bit, won't it? Trillion or so? But it isn't filled with many 'entitlements' at all, is it?

Yes, his SC appointee is left of center.

What do you think about all the "Bush" he's continued unabated?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

His voting record in the Senate isn't what we are talking about, his Presidency is.

"Frightening expansion" is your opinion, certainly not fact, and not really supported by any evidence if you are referring to healthcare reform (not even a public option) Not really sure what "frightening expansion" you are talking about.

The labor union comment is nothing more than a dig.

The "trillion dollar entitlement program" will cut the deficit by quite a bit, won't it? Trillion or so? But it isn't filled with many 'entitlements' at all, is it?

Yes, his SC appointee is left of center.

What do you think about all the "Bush" he's continued unabated?

The govt hasnt expanded on his watch? We have basically nationalized the auto industry. The govt now controls 18% of the economy via healthcare. Get real

Only someone with their eyes closed wouldnt admit his far left stance on labor.

Banking on the fiction that the deficit being cut doesnt make the program any less liberal. The public option wasnt included because it couldnt pass with it. pretending that it was dropped for any other reason is myopic.

Obama is not a centerist know matter how hard you want to believe it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The govt hasnt expanded on his watch? We have basically nationalized the auto industry. The govt now controls 18% of the economy via healthcare. Get real

Only someone with their eyes closed wouldnt admit his far left stance on labor.

Banking on the fiction that the deficit being cut doesnt make the program any less liberal. The public option wasnt included because it couldnt pass with it. pretending that it was dropped for any other reason is myopic.

Obama is not a centerist know matter how hard you want to believe it.

The government doesn't "control" healthcare. That's ridiculously bogus. The auto industry isn't "nationalized", either. The President has a problem with labor, his current unpopularity, as he hasn't given them anything special in the last year + joblessness.

Today he's signing in student loan reforms. This will save our country money, and encourage more students to attend college. I'm sure some will characterize this as a government takeover of education

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

The government doesn't "control" healthcare. That's ridiculously bogus. The auto industry isn't "nationalized", either. The President has a problem with labor, his current unpopularity, as he hasn't given them anything special in the last year + joblessness.

Today he's signing in student loan reforms. This will save our country money, and encourage more students to attend college. I'm sure some will characterize this as a government takeover of education

hello??? The govt makes the rules. If that isnt control I dont know what is?

The President hasnt given organized labor anything? LOL.


It will "save our country money"? I love generalized, unsubstantiated quotes like this. Sounds nice but in the end is bs.

Since Govt is already in charge of the vast majority of education it has already taken it over. But they have taken over the student loan business. It isnt a "reform", it is a takeover.

[Cannon Shell]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...n_MIDDLESecond

[Cannon Shell]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...FTSecondBucket

Another explanation on why the bill will not pay for itself or reduce national debt

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Riot

The government doesn't "control" healthcare. That's ridiculously bogus. The auto industry isn't "nationalized", either. The President has a problem with labor, his current unpopularity, as he hasn't given them anything special in the last year + joblessness.

Today he's signing in student loan reforms. This will save our country money, and encourage more students to attend college. I'm sure some will characterize this as a government takeover of education

Please dont let this rub you the wrong my question for you is the following:

Correct me if im wrong, but doesnt this new helathcare bill mandates that everyone has to have health insurance? Isnt that a way of the government trying to control healthcare.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...FTSecondBucket

Another explanation on why the bill will not pay for itself or reduce national debt

Wow what a suprise this healthcare bill wont pay for itself or reduce national debt. Interesting.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

hello??? The govt makes the rules. If that isnt control I dont know what is?

The President hasnt given organized labor anything? LOL.


It will "save our country money"? I love generalized, unsubstantiated quotes like this. Sounds nice but in the end is bs.

Since Govt is already in charge of the vast majority of education it has already taken it over. But they have taken over the student loan business. It isnt a "reform", it is a takeover.

You definitely live in an information world different from many.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Please dont let this rub you the wrong my question for you is the following:

Correct me if im wrong, but doesnt this new helathcare bill mandates that everyone has to have health insurance? Isnt that a way of the government trying to control healthcare.

Trying to control healthcare costs. The government will still have nothing to do with determining anything at all about one's healthcare.

We are still the only first-world country without government-run healthcare.

If Obama was governing from the left, we'd have a public option.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...FTSecondBucket

Another explanation on why the bill will not pay for itself or reduce national debt

Or one could quote other economists and the CBO who say it will, significantly.

So?

It will "save our country money"? I love generalized, unsubstantiated quotes like this. Sounds nice but in the end is bs.

It's substantiated by the CBO and a little simple math. You simply have a propensity for dismissing anything you don't like hearing as 'bs'.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

You definitely live in an information world different from many.

According to you Obama had the all time greatest first year as president and is operating as a centerist and isnt a staunch union man.

Yeah I'm talking crazy....

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

There was government funding and support for stem cell research , is the point you are trying to make about embreyo research and that the feds didnt fund it before . Im sure being as well read as you are scientists are finding that using cord blood and other tissues are proving to be more usefull than embreyo's. Just saying.

Bush restricted federal funding to 40 existing cell lines, telling scientists they couldn't use anything else. A political decision based strictly upon one man's certain religious view. And that view was based upon false information (involving abortion, tissue obtainment, etc)

The importance of Obama immediately lifting those restrictions results in the ability of science to use more than those basic cell lines.

Politicians have no business whatsoever inserting their personal religious views into our national and international scientific work.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

According to you Obama had the all time greatest first year as president and is operating as a centerist and isnt a staunch union man.

Yeah I'm talking crazy....

Seriously - misquoting me by a few words here and there, resulting in changing my meaning, doesn't help build your case.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Or one could quote other economists and the CBO who say it will, significantly.

So?



It's substantiated by the CBO and a little simple math. You simply have a propensity for dismissing anything you don't like hearing as 'bs'.

LOL. The CBO can only use the info given. You understand that if that info is faulty then the entire premise is faulty? And we have already seen from the actions of Fortune 500 companies that the math they used is going to be way off. As a matter of fact they are so pissed that they have been exposed that Waxman is calling those companies on the carpet for following the law! Naturally this story gets less than its fair share of coverage because it is a bit more complicated than the average moron can digest. But that doesnt make the fact that a whole lot of people are going to feel the pain of this bill real soon and those said people are the same people that were told wouldnt see any changes. Not to mention the huge amount of retirees and others about to be dumped in to medicare which werent accounted for and which in itself will throw their numbers askew.

But you keep on believing verbatim everything that politicians tell you. They would never lead you astray...