Summer Bird to Japan Cup Dirt - Page 2

#21 11-09-2009, 05:47 PM

I wonder if Steve will hire a co-host for ATR in 2011. Tim Ice will probably be available.

Danzig · #22 11-09-2009, 07:02 PM

how many starts on the year? seven or eight? that's not exactly a gruelling campaign.
he can run in the japan cup and then take a nice long break before starting back next year.

Travis Stone · #23 11-09-2009, 07:21 PM

I would probably go too... his races have been spaced out, it's not like he tried all three legs of the Crown and it's dirt, his preferred surface.

CSC · #24 11-09-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Totally agree. Lay off, come back at Gulfstream or FairGrounds. This makes no sense to me at all.

I don't see the logic in going to Japan other than for the obvious reasons...money, it's a strange move for a horse destined to be at the top of the division next year, not to mention the dreadful record American horses have when they ship over there.

CSC · #25 11-09-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

how many starts on the year? seven or eight? that's not exactly a gruelling campaign.
he can run in the japan cup and then take a nice long break before starting back next year.

Let's examine his year, he started his career on only Mar 1 of this year.

Race 2 - Broke his Mdn on Mar 19
Race 3 - Arkansas Derby on Apr 11
Race 4 - Kentucky Derby on May 2
Race 5 - Belmont on June 6
Race 6 - Haskel on Aug 2
Race 7 - Travers on Aug 29
Race 8 - Jockey Gold Cup on Oct 3
Race 9 - BC Classic on Nov 6
Race 10 - Japan Cup on Dec 6?

Not much time to rest for 2010...and these races hardly resemble Peppers Pride's sheet.

pba1817 · #26 11-09-2009, 10:05 PM

That is 9 starts in 8 months, including 6 G1's and a G2...

That is a career for most horses...

Danzig · #27 11-09-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Let's examine his year, he started his career on only Mar 1 of this year.

Race 2 - Broke his Mdn on Mar 19
Race 3 - Arkansas Derby on Apr 11
Race 4 - Kentucky Derby on May 2
Race 5 - Belmont on June 6
Race 6 - Haskel on Aug 2
Race 7 - Travers on Aug 29
Race 8 - Jockey Gold Cup on Oct 3
Race 9 - BC Classic on Nov 6
Race 10 - Japan Cup on Dec 6?

Not much time to rest for 2010...and these races hardly resemble Peppers Pride's sheet.

i don't see a problem. there's certainly not much early on for next year, i don't see what the rush would be. and i'd imagine they're going to map a campaign backwards from the bc. plenty of time for a break after japan and before his '10 campaign.

Danzig · #28 11-09-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pba1817

That is 9 starts in 8 months, including 6 G1's and a G2...

That is a career for most horses...

a refreshing change for sure from what we've seen in years' past.

pba1817 · #29 11-09-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

a refreshing change for sure from what we've seen in years' past.

You wont be saying that if come spring time and he is up the track in a few starts...

letswastemoney · #30 11-10-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pba1817

This seems to be what happens when a trainer gets his first decent or good horse.. he runs them all over the place, shows no patience(Wooley comes to mind too), and basically ruins the horse before its time.

Dude, give your horse a break, he had a fantastic season and will be very good to you next year if you are good to him now...

Umm Wooley?

Mine That Bird barely ran this year. he had 2 prep races for the BC and that was it. He was kept out of the Travers. I wouldn't exactly call that having no patience

Cannon Shell · #31 11-10-2009, 04:40 AM

I dont understand why they would run there. You have the 3 yo champion coming back (supposedly) against a terrible group of older horses and a thin bunch of fellow three year olds. You have run an ambitious schedule since March and just ran a good but not outstanding 4th in the Classic. Perhaps your horse is starting to feel the effects of the campaign and tailing off? You are going to run on a plowed field against 15 horses across the pond in a race that is really of little signifigance except for the purse.

What is the point?

Kasept · #32 11-10-2009, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pba1817

This seems to be what happens when a trainer gets his first decent or good horse.. he runs them all over the place, shows no patience (Wooley comes to mind too), and basically ruins the horse before its time.

Dude, give your horse a break, he had a fantastic season and will be very good to you next year if you are good to him now...

A reminder that trainers don't own these horses. Owners do. That's why they're called owners... The Jayaramans waited a long time to have a horse like this, put a lot of money into the game and want to enjoy going where you can go with horse like this. They were invited to Japan and think it would be a fun experience.

Runs them all over the place and shows no patience? That's comical. Summer Bird has been brilliantly managed by Ice start by start, bringing the horse into each venue three weeks early and honing him to terrific performances everywhere. He's thrived on the work and has gotten better as the year has gone on with each start. Even over the synthetic Saturday, as surface he wasn't supposed to handle and didn't really relish, he managed a 107 Beyer beaten three lengths by Zenyatta and a length by the 2 turf horses.

While I wouldn't make this trip if I owned him, no one can say a bad word about the decisions made by the connections up to now or how Tim Ice has handled the horse the 2009 3yo champion colt/gelding.

CSC · #33 11-10-2009, 08:08 AM

Tim Ice has impressed me alot this yr, in particular his handling of Summer Bird and not to mention how he comes across while being interviewed, this guy has a bright future in the game. This Japan venture did sound abit like an Owner's call and frankly speaking it is their right to do so, I just hope if the horse looks lethargic prior to shipping to Japan, Tim will call an audible at the line of scrimmage, I don't know him but I have no doubts he would pull the plug. The fear of running a tired horse this good, a horse that always tries and thus maybe hurting himself is far too risky.

johnny pinwheel · #34 11-10-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

how many starts on the year? seven or eight? that's not exactly a gruelling campaign.
he can run in the japan cup and then take a nice long break before starting back next year.

i agree, plus his first few were learning experiences because he had never raced. another race is no big deal. i would be more worried about the travel and the surface. our horses seem to "flop" over there.

Gander · #35 11-10-2009, 08:43 AM

Wouldnt it be something if Summer Bird shipped back to NY and faced Quality Road (again) in the Cigar Mile?

Throw in likely starters Bribon and Vineyard Haven, possibly Kodiak Kowboy too and it would be better than any BC race we just saw. A race for the ages. Race of the year if you will.

CSC · #36 11-10-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Wouldnt it be something if Summer Bird shipped back to NY and faced Quality Road (again) in the Cigar Mile?

Throw in likely starters Bribon and Vineyard Haven, possibly Kodiak Kowboy too and it would be better than any BC race we just saw. A race for the ages. Race of the year if you will.

I don't like it, a one turn mile doesn't really fit his strengths. I really don't see much in the calendar the rest of the year that is too appealing for him, a gr.2 win in the Clark wouldn't add too much to his resume since he is pretty much assured of the 3 yr old male eclispe already. The Malabu? Not a chance, if anything the Dubai World Cup is the most interesting race down the line, the Foster if they want a longer rest for him, I can see him running well there at CD.

Gander · #37 11-10-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

I don't like it, a one turn mile doesn't really fit his strengths. I really don't see much in the calendar the rest of the year that is too appealing for him, a gr.2 win in the Clark wouldn't add too much to his resume since he is pretty much assured of the 3 yr old male eclispe already. The Malabu? Not a chance, if anything the Dubai World Cup is the most interesting race down the line, the Foster if they want a longer rest for him, I can see him running well there at CD.

Like Summer Bird has a better chance in that race in Japan? And how many of his fans are really even going to watch that race? Him coming to Aqueduct Thanksgiving weekend for another showdown against Quality Road, hopefully this time on a fast track? Quality Road has run at distances that more favor Summer Bird, so why not run at a distance that gives QR a fighting chance?

Okay, I forgot. This isnt about the fans...its about money.

PS- I strongly disagree that Summer Bird wouldnt do well going a one turn mile.

NTamm1215 · #38 11-10-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Wouldnt it be something if Summer Bird shipped back to NY and faced Quality Road (again) in the Cigar Mile?

Throw in likely starters Bribon and Vineyard Haven, possibly Kodiak Kowboy too and it would be better than any BC race we just saw. A race for the ages. Race of the year if you will.

Summer Bird would get absolutely mauled at 8 furlongs against those horses.

NT

CSC · #39 11-10-2009, 09:52 AM

Mine That Bird would be more interesting IMO.

pba1817 · #40 11-10-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Umm Wooley?

Mine That Bird barely ran this year. he had 2 prep races for the BC and that was it. He was kept out of the Travers. I wouldn't exactly call that having no patience

He was kept out of the Travers because he had surgery...

8 starts(all the TC legs) in 8 months at 6 different tracks with a surgery thrown in is not patience...