Should there be a separate synthetic awards? - Page 2

cmorioles · #22 10-18-2009, 03:41 PM

If you believe synthetics will be around at the top levels of the game in 10 years, I guess there may be some value for "synthetic stallions". However, SoCal will go back to dirt sooner or later, and Keeneland and Woodbine will be the only tracks that matter running on the stuff, and Woodbine doesn't matter much in the US anyway. The other runs about a month a year.

eajinabi · #23 10-18-2009, 04:39 PM

If there were synthetic awards who would get it?

Zenyatta amd Pioneer of the Nile for sure.

Bigsmc · #24 10-18-2009, 04:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why are awards such a big topic?

Cannon Shell · #25 10-18-2009, 05:00 PM

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Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You are making a joke with POTN right? Do you know how much more money he would have been worth with a win in the SA Derby, Hol Futurity, and second in the Derby had it been on dirt for all the races.

A horse like Zensational is losing money because of the stuff, he would be worth more if he had that same record on dirt. Dont think the owners do not recognize this at the high levels of racing out there.

Am I making a joke ? Let me ask you this. Is $4 million dollars a joke? That is what his owners got for 1/2 of him as a stallion. In a terrible market for stallions. If those races were run on dirt what do you think he would have brought? An $8 million dollar value for a horse with his record is damn good. Though I think Vinery is nuts for giving them that.

A horse like Zensational if he wins the BC will be worth plenty. It isnt as though you would be breeding to Zensational thinking of Triple Crown horse.

Cannon Shell · #26 10-18-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

If you believe synthetics will be around at the top levels of the game in 10 years, I guess there may be some value for "synthetic stallions". However, SoCal will go back to dirt sooner or later, and Keeneland and Woodbine will be the only tracks that matter running on the stuff, and Woodbine doesn't matter much in the US anyway. The other runs about a month a year.

Del Mar isnt going to change. Hollywood isnt going to change and probably wont be around. who knows what will become of SA but the current management isnt going to change. The possibility of a new track in Southern California having a dirt track is highly probable. But Turfway, Arlington, Woodbine, Keeneland, Golden Gate, Presque Isle and Sheikh Mo Downs arent changing. I realize that some of those arent major tracks but outside of SA and Hollywood that is all the tracks with synthetics.

cmorioles · #27 10-18-2009, 05:23 PM

Delmar could very well change if the horsemen there have anything to do with it.

letswastemoney · #28 10-18-2009, 05:40 PM

It seems odd to compare Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra because they've done all their accomplishments on a different surface.

A lot of the horses Zenyatta beat are not going to run the same way on dirt. Lethal Heat probably won't run the same on dirt, given who her sire is. Life is Sweet was mostly a turf horse before coming here wasn't she?

Likewise, Macho Again isn't going to run the same way on synthetics or turf. Mine That Bird seems a notch below his best at Santa Anita. It remains to be seen what Summer Bird will do, but are we to judge Summer Bird by the same standards on synthetics? Even if he loses the Classic, wouldn't you bet him right back once he starts on dirt again?

If Zenyatta were to race in the Classic and beat Summer Bird, people would be saying, "Look Zenyatta beat Summer Bird...she must be as good or better than RA!"

These horses are being compared to each other as if they're the same type. I just figure things would be more clearer if there was a synthetic HOY, then maybe there wouldn't be so much argument over who deserves HOY more.

Cannon Shell · #29 10-18-2009, 05:53 PM

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Originally Posted by cmorioles

Delmar could very well change if the horsemen there have anything to do with it.

Why would you say that? Del mar is the one CA track whose management is completely supportive of their track.

Cannon Shell · #30 10-18-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

It seems odd to compare Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra because they've done all their accomplishments on a different surface.

A lot of the horses Zenyatta beat are not going to run the same way on dirt. Lethal Heat probably won't run the same on dirt, given who her sire is. Life is Sweet was mostly a turf horse before coming here wasn't she?

Likewise, Macho Again isn't going to run the same way on synthetics or turf. Mine That Bird seems a notch below his best at Santa Anita. It remains to be seen what Summer Bird will do, but are we to judge Summer Bird by the same standards on synthetics? Even if he loses the Classic, wouldn't you bet him right back once he starts on dirt again?

If Zenyatta were to race in the Classic and beat Summer Bird, people would be saying, "Look Zenyatta beat Summer Bird...she must be as good or better than RA!"

These horses are being compared to each other as if they're the same type. I just figure things would be more clearer if there was a synthetic HOY, then maybe there wouldn't be so much argument over who deserves HOY more.

Why would Zenyatta deserve HOY based upon her current campaign?

Indian Charlie · #31 10-18-2009, 06:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why would Zenyatta deserve HOY based upon her current campaign?

Why are you asking so many questions today?

cmorioles · #32 10-18-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why would you say that? Del mar is the one CA track whose management is completely supportive of their track.

The SoCal horsemen are not happy with ANY of the synthetic surfaces. Didn't like 20 horses die at the short Delmar meet this year. It has been widely reported lately.

One things is sure, a mix of dirt and synthetics isn't going to benefit anyone out there.

Cannon Shell · #33 10-18-2009, 08:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Why are you asking so many questions today?

Feeling inquisitive. Getting set for the big Morimoto Iron Chef America at 10!

Cannon Shell · #34 10-18-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The SoCal horsemen are not happy with ANY of the synthetic surfaces. Didn't like 20 horses die at the short Delmar meet this year. It has been widely reported lately.

One things is sure, a mix of dirt and synthetics isn't going to benefit anyone out there.

Since when are tracks taking horseman's desires into consideration? Especially when they will have to dig back into their pockets to do so and even more importantly admit the surfaces installed were no good. There is a better chance of me being treated for anorexia than that happening.