More good news for horseman from CDI

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

if it didnt cost so much they would already have done it.

They're hoping the 40 or so track regulars that have intermediate computer skills will go the adw/on-track route to help pay for the new surface.

Hopefully they go with pro-ride. I prefer the surface to look like a river of dingleberries, not sand.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

They're hoping the 40 or so track regulars that have intermediate computer skills will go the adw/on-track route to help pay for the new surface.

Hopefully they go with pro-ride. I prefer the surface to look like a river of dingleberries, not sand.

They wont buy a track from keeneland so poly is probably out.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ask a stupid question...

My point is I don't think you are capable of saying or thinking anything positive about CD. A few weeks back you mocked their press release about testing for 100 different drugs and other safety measures before finally admitting you thought the drug testing, the core of the release, was a good decision.

Back to my original point, I just don't get why purse structure can't be based on traditional business principles. If CD only wants to contribute X to purses, then they have to live with the smaller fields and lighter handle.

And if the bettors continue to wager on an inferior product, that's the bettors' problem.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

My point is I don't think you are capable of saying or thinking anything positive about CD. A few weeks back you mocked their press release about testing for 100 different drugs and other safety measures before finally admitting you thought the drug testing, the core of the release, was a good decision.

Back to my original point, I just don't get why purse structure can't be based on traditional business principles. If CD only wants to contribute X to purses, then they have to live with the smaller fields and lighter handle.

And if the bettors continue to wager on an inferior product, that's the bettors' problem.

I have some great friends that work for CD and they dont have anything good to say either. When I came to KY, CD was a great place as far as being an owner or trainer. Between them and Keeneland, KY was a real move up from how you were treated in NY or FL. But that has changed dramatically in the last few years. Interestingly enough it has also come as the brass at CD has completely turned over and the horseman element in management of CD that was always strong has been just about eliminated.

I know you will be insulted again but you seem to lack the understanding that a certain % of the money bet belongs to the horseman. The track may take the bet but they do not own the racing product. This isnt like baseball where the owners of the team pay the players. They pay us our share of the money bet in purses, not what they feel like giving us. When they underpay, they have to make up the difference, usually the next meet with increased overnight purses. When they overpay, the purses generally are lowered. if the difference is not that great they usually make no move as it works itself out. The core issue is that CD is trying to funnel wagers to its ADW where they want to pay us a much smaller percentage for purses. They are basically trying to make money off of our take. The ADW is the only growth (though it is mostly just the same money being bet in a different manner) area in the business and we are supposed to be satisfied to take less? That makes no sense from our point of view.

Their safety measures are mostly lip service. Testing for 100 different drugs is a nice idea but hardly earth shattering news since there are at least 5000 known medications used on equines.

I have been based at CD for 10 years, won a lot of races and money there. For the most part the people who work there have been great to me. I have many friends who work there in many different capacities. But the upper management/corporate types who most likely have no idea who I even am are killing the racing there and probably dont even know it. Not to mention that morale among employees and horseman has to be at an all-time low.

When people were railing against NYRA and its management the last few years I just shook my head as many of those same people fully supported the management at CDI. As a horseman there is no doubt that the management of NYRA has a far greater respect for and desire to improve the sport than CDI. If any of this offends you let me apologize in advance.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by justindew

My point is I don't think you are capable of saying or thinking anything positive about CD. A few weeks back you mocked their press release about testing for 100 different drugs and other safety measures before finally admitting you thought the drug testing, the core of the release, was a good decision.

Back to my original point, I just don't get why purse structure can't be based on traditional business principles. If CD only wants to contribute X to purses, then they have to live with the smaller fields and lighter handle.

And if the bettors continue to wager on an inferior product, that's the bettors' problem.

a rather interesting customer service approach.

Ohhh might we actually bring up the word union.
Remember what the writers did to the Networks.

Ya know people got tired of watching reruns of
American Gladiator. And the writers came back
with a better deal. Inferior products dont do well.
So if people really care about good racing...

Getting trainers and owners together....?
Yes...? Or there just are not enough people
willing to form an "alliance" and slap the track(s) upside the head...

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have some great friends that work for CD and they dont have anything good to say either. When I came to KY, CD was a great place as far as being an owner or trainer. Between them and Keeneland, KY was a real move up from how you were treated in NY or FL. But that has changed dramatically in the last few years. Interestingly enough it has also come as the brass at CD has completely turned over and the horseman element in management of CD that was always strong has been just about eliminated.

I know you will be insulted again but you seem to lack the understanding that a certain % of the money bet belongs to the horseman. The track may take the bet but they do not own the racing product. This isnt like baseball where the owners of the team pay the players. They pay us our share of the money bet in purses, not what they feel like giving us. When they underpay, they have to make up the difference, usually the next meet with increased overnight purses. When they overpay, the purses generally are lowered. if the difference is not that great they usually make no move as it works itself out. The core issue is that CD is trying to funnel wagers to its ADW where they want to pay us a much smaller percentage for purses. They are basically trying to make money off of our take. The ADW is the only growth (though it is mostly just the same money being bet in a different manner) area in the business and we are supposed to be satisfied to take less? That makes no sense from our point of view.

Their safety measures are mostly lip service. Testing for 100 different drugs is a nice idea but hardly earth shattering news since there are at least 5000 known medications used on equines.

I have been based at CD for 10 years, won a lot of races and money there. For the most part the people who work there have been great to me. I have many friends who work there in many different capacities. But the upper management/corporate types who most likely have no idea who I even am are killing the racing there and probably dont even know it. Not to mention that morale among employees and horseman has to be at an all-time low.

When people were railing against NYRA and its management the last few years I just shook my head as many of those same people fully supported the management at CDI. As a horseman there is no doubt that the management of NYRA has a far greater respect for and desire to improve the sport than CDI. If any of this offends you let me apologize in advance.

No, I understand that this IS the case. What I don't understand is why. Why does anyone have to OWN the racing product? It seems to me the best model would be for a racetrack to put up a purse for a race, and then make money off the handle after the purse is paid (minus expenses and other crap). All these guarantees about who gets what seems like it's complicating the picture.

I get paid by CD, and I am openly critical of them often. And I don't disagree with much of what you say. But I think a very pervasive problem here is that CD and the "industry" in general make so many bad decisions that when a good decision is made, everyone bashes it instantly because CD, or NYRA, or the NTRA, or the Breeders' Cup made the decision. In turn, people who make logical arguments against and criticisms of the "industry" get tuned out because they bitch about everything.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Danzig

a rather interesting customer service approach.

I just love when bettors complain yet continue to bet. NO ONE AT CD OR ANYWHERE ELSE WILL CARE WHAT BETTORS THINK IF THEY CONTINUE TO WAGER ON HORSE RACING.

Bettors have power that they don't seem to realize. Look at the Future Wager that CD offers. Handle has dropped recently. So they made changes this year by adding the exacta. Did it work? We'll see. But at least they are listening to some degree.

If bettors want track execs and whomever else to make changes, go play poker for a while.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by justindew

I just love when bettors complain yet continue to bet. NO ONE AT CD OR ANYWHERE ELSE WILL CARE WHAT BETTORS THINK IF THEY CONTINUE TO WAGER ON HORSE RACING.

Bettors have power that they don't seem to realize. Look at the Future Wager that CD offers. Handle has dropped recently. So they made changes this year by adding the exacta. Did it work? We'll see. But at least they are listening to some degree.

If bettors want track execs and whomever else to make changes, go play poker for a while.

doesn't your second paragraph contradict your first? and as for whether they listen or not, you don't have to wait til you lose your base to worry about how to give your customers a decent product. perhaps this is the mindset that brings about the constant 'racing is dying' comments-churchill and the other tracks and racing entities need to stay ahead of the game, not behind it. i would point to oaklawn as a case in point. everything has gotten better there, and it's probably because oaklawn has consistently attempted to offer a better product and has managed to find ways to grow their business. they're adding to purses, unlike many tracks right now. your approach would lead to beginning to bail water after the ship has already sunk to the bottom.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Danzig

doesn't your second paragraph contradict your first? and as for whether they listen or not, you don't have to wait til you lose your base to worry about how to give your customers a decent product. perhaps this is the mindset that brings about the constant 'racing is dying' comments-churchill and the other tracks and racing entities need to stay ahead of the game, not behind it. i would point to oaklawn as a case in point. everything has gotten better there, and it's probably because oaklawn has consistently attempted to offer a better product and has managed to find ways to grow their business. they're adding to purses, unlike many tracks right now. your approach would lead to beginning to bail water after the ship has already sunk to the bottom.

What I'm saying is, the people who seem to be in a position to instantly change things care about one thing: the bottom line. And if bettors keep wagering on the current racing product being offered, the changes we as bettors want to see are unlikely to be realized.

I agree that waiting is not necessary. But I'm not in charge, and I don't have a $250,000 salary on the line if a mistake is made. Unfortunately, the people we need to convince DO have something to lose. And since we keep betting, no one cares what we have to say.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

No, I understand that this IS the case. What I don't understand is why. Why does anyone have to OWN the racing product? It seems to me the best model would be for a racetrack to put up a purse for a race, and then make money off the handle after the purse is paid (minus expenses and other crap). All these guarantees about who gets what seems like it's complicating the picture.

I get paid by CD, and I am openly critical of them often. And I don't disagree with much of what you say. But I think a very pervasive problem here is that CD and the "industry" in general make so many bad decisions that when a good decision is made, everyone bashes it instantly because CD, or NYRA, or the NTRA, or the Breeders' Cup made the decision. In turn, people who make logical arguments against and criticisms of the "industry" get tuned out because they bitch about everything.

We own the horses. The horses are the product. Do you really think that CDI wouldnt just run a bunch of cheap races and a few stakes on Saturday if they werent contractually obligated? Thier idea would be we will get great field size and the same handle so why pay out the big purses?

I rarely ever see logical ideas get bashed, usually just the ones that are either illogical or impossible to achieve.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

I just love when bettors complain yet continue to bet. NO ONE AT CD OR ANYWHERE ELSE WILL CARE WHAT BETTORS THINK IF THEY CONTINUE TO WAGER ON HORSE RACING.

Bettors have power that they don't seem to realize. Look at the Future Wager that CD offers. Handle has dropped recently. So they made changes this year by adding the exacta. Did it work? We'll see. But at least they are listening to some degree.

If bettors want track execs and whomever else to make changes, go play poker for a while.

In theory what you are saying has some validity. But CDI acts as though it would rather maneuver into getting a larger % of a dwindling pool and wait on the slots as its solution. Aronsen seems to get it from his recent comments but the whole Silicon Valley thing makes most people believe that their focus is somewhere other than racing especially after some of the lame ideas that have come from there and the impossibly hardline they keep drawing in negotiations.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In theory what you are saying has some validity. But CDI acts as though it would rather maneuver into getting a larger % of a dwindling pool and wait on the slots as its solution. Aronsen seems to get it from his recent comments but the whole Silicon Valley thing makes most people believe that their focus is somewhere other than racing especially after some of the lame ideas that have come from there and the impossibly hardline they keep drawing in negotiations.

Has it occurred to anyone that CD is taking this one step at a time? Perhaps they want to make sure they get as large a share of the pools as possible BEFORE they take steps to grow the pools. I mean, that's just Business 101. Fight to get the largest piece of the pie before everyone realizes how tasty it is.

At least that's how I see it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

Has it occurred to anyone that CD is taking this one step at a time? Perhaps they want to make sure they get as large a share of the pools as possible BEFORE they take steps to grow the pools. I mean, that's just Business 101. Fight to get the largest piece of the pie before everyone realizes how tasty it is.

At least that's how I see it.

No

Originally Posted by pgardn

Ohhh might we actually bring up the word union.
Remember what the writers did to the Networks.

Ya know people got tired of watching reruns of
American Gladiator. And the writers came back
with a better deal. Inferior products dont do well.
So if people really care about good racing...

Getting trainers and owners together....?
Yes...? Or there just are not enough people
willing to form an "alliance" and slap the track(s) upside the head...

I guess there is no cohesion among people
who have the same interests, but compete
against each other. Too bad.