Curlin Retired.. Now Appears Lane's End bound..

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

does anyone really think curlin will turn out well as a sire? i don't see him being an ap indy or mr p. or even close.

he really doesnt have to be anything like ap indy or mr. p to turn out well as a sire.

There are very few ap indy's and mr p's out there.

he could be like tiznow and turn out well as a sire.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by philcski

It's a marketing ploy for higher stud fees from a guy who made his fortune selling sh!tty wine in a box. Would you expect any less?

#65? More like #165.

I actually thought he was fishing for some track to offer a bonanza for the 'one more race this year' that Jackson was willing to do, but couldn't find one rich enough.

--Dunbar

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Jess Jackson never disappoints in his grandiose lunacy of the importance of this horse.. There are rumors he is not well physically, so I guess there may be excuses, but how about these gems?

"To race merely on dirt for inadequate compensation and to deny his genes to the gene pool of thoroughbreds, that’s not something I wanted to do.”

Inadequate compensation? This guy is too funny. He said he would have raced him in International turf events where they race for the real money, but since Curlin wasn't good enough for that he'll retire him. Huh? And gee Jess, we're sorry that the series of $500,000-$1,000,000 Gr. I races on dirt in the U.S. aren't adequate compensation for your steroid-pumped gene pool specimen that missed his entire juvenile year with physical issues...

“He’s had a stellar racing career,” Jackson said. “I think he’s one of the top 10 horses since 1900. How he rates versus others, it’s not merely about statistics.”

This is so comical as to be barely worthy of a discussion. Curlin doesn't break the Top 50 since 1900.. let alone the Top 10. If you use the very credible Blood-Horse Thoroughbred Champions Top 100 of the 20th century as a guide, (which doesn't even include horses since 2000), Holy Bull is #64. Would you put Curlin ahead of Holy Bull? Exactly.. So call him #65 at best.

Curlin was a very nice horse who had a very good career and it was swell to have him around as a 4yo. One plus of his retirement is it will mean that much less of Jackson to have to endure.

You put things in bold. I shouldn't have needed further warning to avoid drinking a beverage while reading these quotes. Completely my fault. Of course I think the gag reflex would've kicked in regardless.

[Danzig]

i wonder which of the top horses since 1900 (unlike merlinsky, i originally thought he had said since 1990--not quite as laugh and spew-inducing when you read it as such) he would remove to put curlin in there???? i'd have a hard time trying to squeeze him into the top 10 since '90 myself...

oh, wait..you know-i bet i know what jackson really meant. he meant top ten since the turn of the century, and had forgotten we're now in the 20's, not the 19's. what else could it be?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i wonder which of the top horses since 1900 (unlike merlinsky, i originally thought he had said since 1990--not quite as laugh and spew-inducing when you read it as such) he would remove to put curlin in there???? i'd have a hard time trying to squeeze him into the top 10 since '90 myself...

Funny, that happened to me, too. I first read it as 1990. Our brains probably forced our eyes to "see" something that was at least arguable, rather than something from Bizarro World.

--Dunbar

[Riot]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Is anyone on here old enough to remember when an owner wasn't given extra praise for keeping a 3yo on the track for his 4yo year because it was just the way things were done?

It was the way things were done when one wanted to be a part of the sport of horse racing. It changed when living creatures were suddenly touted as investments for outsiders.

The 80's permanently changed the horse business, any "horse" business - be it STB & TB racing, hunter-jumpers, Arabs, QH, etc - it all changed forever after a dressed-up pyramid scheme became the business model.

Funny thing is, that has remained a major business model. It's 2008, and the inflow of new money has been gone for some time. Now it's really ugly.

I blame Leslie Combs and Nashua, myself

[sumitas]

They've been more concerned about "the industry" than the sport for a long time .

[MLC]

Originally Posted by Riot

It was the way things were done when one wanted to be a part of the sport of horse racing. It changed when living creatures were suddenly touted as investments for outsiders.

The 80's permanently changed the horse business, any "horse" business - be it STB & TB racing, hunter-jumpers, Arabs, QH, etc - it all changed forever after a dressed-up pyramid scheme became the business model.

Funny thing is, that has remained a major business model. It's 2008, and the inflow of new money has been gone for some time. Now it's really ugly.

I blame Leslie Combs and Nashua, myself

It's nice to see that reference to Nashua and his syndication. Was the deal in place before the end of his 3 year old season? Another ground breaker deal was Secretariat's, formed before he raced as a 3 year old.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by MLC

It's nice to see that reference to Nashua and his syndication. Was the deal in place before the end of his 3 year old season? Another ground breaker deal was Secretariat's, formed before he raced as a 3 year old.

Didn't that involve Penny Chenery's dad and the family's financial situation though? If you're trying to save the farm, it's a bit more forgivable.

Oh and about the turn of the century thing, since I believe technically it began in 2001 not 2000 as commonly thought (though I'm still gonna think of 2000 as the dawn of the new whatever) doesn't that mean we're talking top 10 from 2001-2008? I mean it doesn't even include Tiznow's 2000 season or Giant's Causeway. Sneaky there, Jess.

[MLC]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Didn't that involve Penny Chenery's dad and the family's financial situation though? If you're trying to save the farm, it's a bit more forgivable.

Oh and about the turn of the century thing, since I believe technically it began in 2001 not 2000 as commonly thought (though I'm still gonna think of 2000 as the dawn of the new whatever) doesn't that mean we're talking top 10 from 2001-2008? I mean it doesn't even include Tiznow's 2000 season or Giant's Causeway. Sneaky there, Jess.

You're right, that does make it a bit more forgivable. Also, when you consider what Secretariat accomplished as a 3 year old, you can accept his position as one of the best.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Didn't that involve Penny Chenery's dad and the family's financial situation though? If you're trying to save the farm, it's a bit more forgivable.
.

Yes, Christopher Chenery had died and the family needed cash to pay the estate taxes; Secretariat was the most valuable of the farm's assets, so his syndication was a matter of necessity. Like the sale of Sunday Silence to Japan - nobody in Kentucky wanted to buy shares in him for stud and after the late 1980s bloodstock crash, Arthur Hancock needed cash to save the farm (Stone farm). The Japanese offered him the big bucks and off my favorite boy went.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Didn't that involve Penny Chenery's dad and the family's financial situation though? If you're trying to save the farm, it's a bit more forgivable.

Oh and about the turn of the century thing, since I believe technically it began in 2001 not 2000 as commonly thought (though I'm still gonna think of 2000 as the dawn of the new whatever) doesn't that mean we're talking top 10 from 2001-2008? I mean it doesn't even include Tiznow's 2000 season or Giant's Causeway. Sneaky there, Jess.

Secretariat and Riva Ridge were syndicated because it was the only Penny Chenery could pay the taxes on the estate she inherited from her father. Estate taxes at the time ran about 60% of the value of the property and she hoped to continue to operate the farm. To keep the farm she had to sell it's teo most significant assets.

Nashua was syndicated in large part because of the the sudden death (by gunshot) of his owner. He did run a complete 4yo season ending with the JCGC. The Woodwards had a long association with Claiborne and one might assume that had Woodward not been killed that Nashua would have stood there, not at Spendthrift.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by MLC

It's nice to see that reference to Nashua and his syndication. Was the deal in place before the end of his 3 year old season? Another ground breaker deal was Secretariat's, formed before he raced as a 3 year old.

(had to look it up Nashua was a 1952 model, the syndication was end of the year 1955 (end of his three-year-old year) early 1956:

Owner: Belair Stud Breeder: Belair Stud State Bred: KY
Winnings: 30 Starts: 22 - 4 - 1, $1,288,565

Won: Futurity S., Hopeful S., Grand Union Hotel S., Juvenile S., Arlington Classic, Flamingo S., Florida Derby, Belmont S., Wood Memorial S., Washington Park Match Race (vs. Swaps), Preakness S. (NTR), Jockey Club Gold Cup, Dwyer S., Monmouth H., Widener H., Suburban H., Grey Lag H., Jockey Club Gold Cup (NTNA), Camden H.

Champion Two-Year-Old Colt, 1954.
Horse Of The Year & Champion Three Year Old Colt, 1955.
Hall Of Fame Inductee, 1965.
Set new North American record at Belmont, 16f in 3:20.2 (1956 Jockey Club Gold Cup).
Set NTR in the '55 Preakness, 9.5f in 1:54.3.
Auctioned in 1956 with the winning sealed bid of $1,252,230.
Sire of 636 foals, 77 stakes winners; AEI 2.37.
Died 1982.
----------------------
Time Magazine, Monday Dec 26, 1955:

Spendthrift's Purchase

When they wager that one horse can run faster than another, most horseplayers worry about one race at a time. Leslie Combs II of Lexington, Ky. faced a somewhat different problem. The horse of his choice would be an odds-on favorite almost any time it ran. The question was not whether it would win, but how much it would make for its owner. It had already earned nearly $1,000,000; Combs estimated that it would romp home with another $450,000 before it slowed down. After that, Combs figured, the horse would earn some $800,000 more at stud.

Just in case some other well-heeled horseman came up with the same answers, Combs added $1,200 for good luck. Then he put in a sealed bid for $1,251,200 on Nashua, pride of the late Sportsman William Woodward Jr., whose Belair Stud stable went on the auction block after he was accidentally shot and killed by his wife (TIME, Nov. 7).

If others agreed with Combs's generous calculations, they lacked the cash of their convictions. When the Woodward estate executors opened the bids on Belair Stud last week, Combs had bought himself a horse. He will be paying the highest price a thoroughbred has ever brought in the history of racing.* The other 61 horses in Belair Stud went for a total of $615,000.

To Nashua, all this high finance means little. Sunny Jim Fitzsimmons, dean of American trainers, will continue to have the 1955 Horse of the Year in his charge; the only difference will be that from now on Nashua will race under the orange-and-blue silks of Combs's Spendthrift Farm.

It will, that is, when Combs gets up exactly $1,126,080 (the original bid required only a certified check for 10% of the purchase price). To Combs, this should present no problem.

Left end on the famed "Praying Colonels" of Centre College (1920-22), he worked his way up through polo playing and coal-mine operating to expanding the family fortune at Spendthrift. Besides, says Combs, he will not have to foot the bill alone. He was front man for a syndicate that includes five others.

* Next highest: $700,000, paid for the Aga Khan's Tulyar by the Irish National Stud in 1952.

[Riot]

Just posted on Blood Horse:

"A Thoroughbred appraiser has set a $20 million value on reigning Horse of the Year Curlin and is recommending ownership be consolidated under primary owner Jess Jackson."