Curlin retired? - Page 2

GBBob · #21 08-31-2008, 09:57 PM

I just would like an honest answer that if you owned Curlin, you wouldn't say wtf and just run in the BC and hell be damned.

pick4 · #22 08-31-2008, 10:47 PM

According to the Beyer fig makers the sprint varient for the one turn King's Bishop was -13 but the two turn varient in the next races as + 1.

Hence Curlin runs a 112 and First Defence runs a 109.

The -13 would put Hello Broadway at an 87
Freedom Bay should get a 99.
Delta Sea would get an 88 and that seems a bit high.

The Beyer guys are wrong sometimes and you can make money if you believe they are wrong.

docicu3 · #23 08-31-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob

I just would like an honest answer that if you owned Curlin, you wouldn't say wtf and just run in the BC and hell be damned.

It's been pretty clear for awhile that Jackson is making a statement about taking a stab at the all time earnings mark besides proving that he welcomes a chance to take on BB. Since the poly issue precludes a meeting at the BC, a more creative answer to luring both entrants to the same race this year seems unlikely unless some carnival like match race suddenly becomes a possibility. The Classic is a bad idea if yesterday's performance is the best Curlin has left in him this year.....He hung around longer than most of the others who had any measure of success perhaps it's time to take a step back and see how the next month or so unfolds rather than pushing him further right now

ELA · #24 09-01-2008, 12:14 AM

I was really glad to see him race. I've seen him on the track several times since he's been here, and I went to see him in the paddock. I hadn't seen him that close up since the BC.

Anyway, the Beyer # in my mind is a moot point. I don't see it being used as publicity in his stallion ad, nor do I see it being used as a reference point for any horses coming out of the race. Sure, we can argue all day long, and the more we argue, the more things we'll find to argue about.

As far as his performance and what's next. I am not a trainer, nor do I play on on the internet, but from my point of view -- what I saw, I am not convinced he liked the track. I was there and watched the race very closely. I had an excellent view. More importantly, I heard several comments after the race that inferred the same thing -- not internet trainers or self proclaimed experts -- people who make their living in the business and who have qualified opinions. I also don't think being in a bit tight in the first turn helped, but he's older, more mature, had plenty of time to settle, settle in, etc. The pace and trip was another factor.

The way the race shaped up, I didn't expect that impressive move where he would eat up ground, power by, and so on. Didn't seem to be that kind of race to me -- and again, the track might have been a factor.

About where he goes next -- sounds to me like Jackson has put everything in play, at least to some extent, albeit small. If he doesn't seem like the kind of horse who would take to the poly/synthetic/etc. -- why send him? To be a "sportsman"? For the good of the game? Same old, age old, been there done that arguement. If the BC is in play, why not send him early, give him every chance. If not, so be it. The money title is nice but doesn't make him any greater in comparison to the greatest horses of all-time.

Eric

ELA · #25 09-01-2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3

It's been pretty clear for awhile that Jackson is making a statement about taking a stab at the all time earnings mark besides proving that he welcomes a chance to take on BB. Since the poly issue precludes a meeting at the BC, a more creative answer to luring both entrants to the same race this year seems unlikely unless some carnival like match race suddenly becomes a possibility. The Classic is a bad idea if yesterday's performance is the best Curlin has left in him this year.....He hung around longer than most of the others who had any measure of success perhaps it's time to take a step back and see how the next month or so unfolds rather than pushing him further right now

Very true. I might look through biased glasses to think this, but if the well is running a bit dry or whatever, yes, bad idea.

Eric

#26 09-01-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

The new and improved DrugS is funny.

anyone who disagree's does not understand horse racing... ANYONE, what he is saying is so simple and correct its hard to imagine how you guys are knocking him

ateamstupid · #27 09-01-2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrfan

anyone who disagree's does not understand horse racing... ANYONE, what he is saying is so simple and correct its hard to imagine how you guys are knocking him

DrugS and I have a disagreement. He doesn't like the figure, in part because he thinks A. P. Arrow ran an unusually bad race, whereas I'm more into buying the figure, in part because I think A. P. Arrow ran a characteristically mediocre race, while the top three all ran above average races.

I still greatly value DrugS' opinion. And I still consistently laugh at yours.

ArlJim78 · #28 09-01-2008, 06:51 AM

I had pictured that Divine Park would run the race that Pass The Point ran, and vice versa. Pass The Point ran huge. The more I think about it, I don't believe it was anything other than the usual solid performance from Curlin and not really indicative of any kind of regression.

CSC · #29 09-01-2008, 08:35 AM

The bigger question mark of the race to me is what happened to Divine Park? Whether you liked him or not, seems I was the only one to like him going into the race, wrong I was. I don't think anyone would have expected such a non race from him as what he showed Saturday, obviously he never looked comfortable over the track. It's one thing to have first run on the leader and fade, which could be explained, but the horse never even raised a hoof in the race. To me the same question mark of how far he wants to go still exists after the Woodward, as this race cannot be taken at face value from such a non effort.

Cajungator26 · #30 09-01-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm not knocking him or disagreeing with him. Read the thread. I was commenting on how eloquent he has become. And let's not kid ourselves here. You have no idea what he is talking about. You're barely literate.

LOL

hoovesupsideyourhead · #31 09-01-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3

It's been pretty clear for awhile that Jackson is making a statement about taking a stab at the all time earnings mark besides proving that he welcomes a chance to take on BB. Since the poly issue precludes a meeting at the BC, a more creative answer to luring both entrants to the same race this year seems unlikely unless some carnival like match race suddenly becomes a possibility. The Classic is a bad idea if yesterday's performance is the best Curlin has left in him this year.....He hung around longer than most of the others who had any measure of success perhaps it's time to take a step back and see how the next month or so unfolds rather than pushing him further right now

I only wish that jackson would have come "over the top" and challenge ivrone and dutrow to match his 5 mill in a match race on the dirt at a 1 mile and 1/2

ArlJim78 · #32 09-01-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

The bigger question mark of the race to me is what happened to Divine Park? Whether you liked him or not, seems I was the only one to like him going into the race, wrong I was. I don't think anyone would have expected such a non race from him as what he showed Saturday, obviously he never looked comfortable over the track. It's one thing to have first run on the leader and fade, which could be explained, but the horse never even raised a hoof in the race. To me the same question mark of how far he wants to go still exists after the Woodward, as this race cannot be taken at face value from such a non effort.

i wouldn't give him any excuse, I'd say he's not ready for big-time 2 turn races. I also had expected more, but it wasn't there.

docicu3 · #33 09-01-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

I only wish that jackson would have come "over the top" and challenge ivrone and dutrow to match his 5 mill in a match race on the dirt at a 1 mile and 1/2

You may still get your wish once Jackson realizes he wants no part of rested improving well bred talent in the BC prior to the orgy that is Curlin's future....

Cannon Shell · #34 09-01-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

i wouldn't give him any excuse, I'd say he's not ready for big-time 2 turn races. I also had expected more, but it wasn't there.

He seemingly wasnt right physically. A month ago he was at a clinic getting checked out for a mystery ailment.

AeWingnut · #35 09-01-2008, 02:30 PM

I still can't believe Wanderin Boy held on and Loose Leaf failed to keep coming.

The pace was real race horse time. Robbie was worried and seemed to whip Curlin more for this one than he did for the DWC. not because he was concerned about getting the win but a bad beyer fig

ArlJim78 · #36 09-01-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He seemingly wasnt right physically. A month ago he was at a clinic getting checked out for a mystery ailment.

what does that mean, seemingly wasn't right? and what exactly is a mystery ailment?

Cannon Shell · #37 09-01-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what does that mean, seemingly wasn't right? and what exactly is a mystery ailment?

He was finished before he hit the turn and was much further back than simply an off race and was sent to the clinic because they thought something was wrong with him 4 weeks ago. They couldnt determine the source of the problem but there was certainly an issue to have sent him. McLaughlin was very open about it. Remember that Rags to Riches was given a thumbs up by new Bolton center right before she broke down. There is rarely such a thing as just an off day without some kind of physical issue however minor.

Cannon Shell · #38 09-01-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't suppose it's possible Curlin had an off day with some minor physical issue?

If he had been shipped to a clinic in the past month to look for an issue it would be more likely. I would also doubt that he would run unless 100% given the amount of **** that would be throw Assmussens way if he were to break down.

ArlJim78 · #39 09-01-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He was finished before he hit the turn and was much further back than simply an off race and was sent to the clinic because they thought something was wrong with him 4 weeks ago. They couldnt determine the source of the problem but there was certainly an issue to have sent him. McLaughlin was very open about it. Remember that Rags to Riches was given a thumbs up by new Bolton center right before she broke down. There is rarely such a thing as just an off day without some kind of physical issue however minor.

perhaps there was a physical issue, but he is also not proven out to be able to run that fast and sustain it through the second turn. either way, i won't be playing him any time soon.

Cannon Shell · #40 09-01-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

perhaps there was a physical issue, but he is also not proven out to be able to run that fast and sustain it through the second turn. either way, i won't be playing him any time soon.

He won the Met Mile where they went much faster fractions, I'm sure if the second turn or distance were the issue he would have made it further than six furlongs before stopping so badly. Why is it so implausable that he has some kind of physical issue especially considering that his recent past?