Grasshopper ? ? ?

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You're wrong...

i dont think im wrong, never ever do you get any price on him... but he's not that good. he does not deserve the attention he gets, he's no jd bailey

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Gomez ride? Oh God do i hear more about Gomez rides on this site then anywhere else. If you only read this site you would think he was a bug rider on some dirt track in the sticks as opposed to being the top rider in the country.

The horse has never won a stake. He has only won a maiden and an allowance. So...my opinion of him is that he is an allowance horse.

Is there something i am missing?

I like Gomez as much as anyone, if i had a horse in a $1,000,000 race Id probaly give Ron Anderson a call before anyone.
However, Just go watch the replay.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I like Gomez as much as anyone, if i had a horse in a $1,000,000 race Id probaly give Ron Anderson a call before anyone.
However, Just go watch the replay.

Fair enough. But the second place finisher in that race was a turf horse. The third place finisher was a rat. Grasshopper finishing second really wouldnt have made much of a difference to me. Someone had to finish second. It was curlin and a bunch of nags.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Fair enough. But the second place finisher in that race was a turf horse. The third place finisher was a rat. Grasshopper finishing second really wouldnt have made much of a difference to me. Someone had to finish second. It was curlin and a bunch of nags.

i think your missing the point, is there any shame with second place in 1 million grade 1 races ?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

What has happened to him ? is it just a case of a horse losing it ? i thought he was sitting on a big year, and its been far from that. I just watched his replays of his saratoga races last year, and they are both about as good as it gets. Is this the perfect example of a horse not holding his form from 3-4, and the reasson why we see many of are good-great horses retired so early ?

Dude, the deal with Grasshopper is that he's about the only stakes horse around that can out-Tiago Tiago.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Dude, the deal with Grasshopper is that he's about the only stakes horse around that can out-Tiago Tiago.

FAIR ENOUGH

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Dude, the deal with Grasshopper is that he's about the only stakes horse around that can out-Tiago Tiago.

Tiago is a multiple graded stake winner. He has won a stake at three and four.

Grasshopper has won only a maiden and an allowance.

How can the two be compared?

There are more accomplished horses on a friday afternoon at presque isle downs.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Tiago is a multiple graded stake winner. He has won a stake at three and four.

Grasshopper has won only a maiden and an allowance.

How can the two be compared?

There are more accomplished horses on a friday afternoon at presque isle downs.

I think you misunderstood what I meant.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

What has happened to him ? is it just a case of a horse losing it ? i thought he was sitting on a big year, and its been far from that. I just watched his replays of his saratoga races last year, and they are both about as good as it gets. Is this the perfect example of a horse not holding his form from 3-4, and the reasson why we see many of are good-great horses retired so early ?

Grasshopper's "huge" second in the weakly assembled Travers field was IMO further validation that Street Sense, despite the Derby win (in which he was lugging in badly the final 1/8th), was not particularly suited to 10f, as opposed to evidence that Grasshopper was improving leaps and bounds. Assuming this, it came as no shock that he lost the Super Derby at odds-on next out (or that Street Sense hung badly the final 1/8th of the BC Classic when trying to match strides with Curlin).

Put on the shelf afterwards, like most Lane's End colts, he wintered at the Fairgrounds for the stakes leading up to the New Orleans Handicap. And like those recent horses (eg Midway Road, Rock Slide, Patriot Act, Parade Leader, Alumni Hall, Crossword), with the exception of Mineshaft, he failed to progress significantly from his 3yo campaign, which had him ranked in the 2nd-tier at best.

Following the New Orleans, trainer Neil Howard typically uses the Ben Ali as a bridge to the Pimlico Special and NY handicaps, but this year, perhaps to avoid the Polytrack, he chose to start Grasshopper in the one-turn Westchester at Belmont, where he ran into that buzzsaw of McLaughlin's that ended up winning the Met Mile. At the time, Howard was quoted as saying he thought the colt, despite his modest success around two turns, was actually better suited to a flat mile. Given his pedigree, by the precocious 2yo and sprinter/middle distance 3yo Dixie Union out of a Mr. Prospector mare, this actually makes some sense.

Neil Howard, following that browbeating in the Westchester chose to stretch the colt back out to no avail in the Pimlico Special and Stephen Foster, but given Devine Park's lofty speed figures and subsequent exploits, a career geared towards extended sprints and flat miles still makes a lot of sense, just not necessarily at the Grade 1 level.

He could be the next Saarland.

[zippyneedsawin]

While I don't think that much of Grasshopper, I'll give him a shot at whatever stakes race he enters at Saratoga this summer.. especially if he's at a decent price. I think he likes that track.

[miraja2]

I basically agree with Rollo here.
Grasshopper was tremendously overrated after his run in the Travers. He ran close to Street Sense that day, but Street Sense was something of a hanger (athough obviously a very good hanger) unless he got his rail trip.
That day Grasshopper was allowed to lope along down the backstretch in :48.18 and 1:12.43. It wasn't at all shocking that Street Sense wasn't able to blow by him in the stretch considering those early fractions and the fact that Street Sense didn't get his ideal trip. Grasshopper also got recognition because he and Street Sense finished so far ahead of the rest of the field, but again this was the result of a the soft early fractions and the low quality of the rest of the starters. These are all of the reasons that I made a few bucks betting against Grasshopper in the Super Derby.

I don't know how much he really slipped from 3 to 4. I think he was just highly overrated at 3.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Grasshopper's "huge" second in the weakly assembled Travers field was IMO further validation that Street Sense, despite the Derby win (in which he was lugging in badly the final 1/8th), was not particularly suited to 10f, as opposed to evidence that Grasshopper was improving leaps and bounds. Assuming this, it came as no shock that he lost the Super Derby at odds-on next out (or that Street Sense hung badly the final 1/8th of the BC Classic when trying to match strides with Curlin).

Put on the shelf afterwards, like most Lane's End colts, he wintered at the Fairgrounds for the stakes leading up to the New Orleans Handicap. And like those recent horses (eg Midway Road, Rock Slide, Patriot Act, Parade Leader, Alumni Hall, Crossword), with the exception of Mineshaft, he failed to progress significantly from his 3yo campaign, which had him ranked in the 2nd-tier at best.

Following the New Orleans, trainer Neil Howard typically uses the Ben Ali as a bridge to the Pimlico Special and NY handicaps, but this year, perhaps to avoid the Polytrack, he chose to start Grasshopper in the one-turn Westchester at Belmont, where he ran into that buzzsaw of McLaughlin's that ended up winning the Met Mile. At the time, Howard was quoted as saying he thought the colt, despite his modest success around two turns, was actually better suited to a flat mile. Given his pedigree, by the precocious 2yo and sprinter/middle distance 3yo Dixie Union out of a Mr. Prospector mare, this actually makes some sense.

Neil Howard, following that browbeating in the Westchester chose to stretch the colt back out to no avail in the Pimlico Special and Stephen Foster, but given Devine Park's lofty speed figures and subsequent exploits, a career geared towards extended sprints and flat miles still makes a lot of sense, just not necessarily at the Grade 1 level.

He could be the next Saarland.

Alumni Hall didn't make his debut until he was 5 - Neil Howard did a great job getting him to the races and making him a stakes winner, given the colt's injury history. Rock Slide only made a few starts at 3 and actually he did improve as a 4 year old, winning at least one stakes that I can think of. He was a late developer; he wasn't a top class horse, but he was a nice colt and he was hard-knocking. Patriot Act didn't even improve from 2 to 3, but eventually he did win a stakes race as a 4 year old.... Are you claiming Neil Howard is not a good trainer?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Are you claiming Neil Howard is not a good trainer?

No, not at all. He did a great job getting those horses black-type, whether they were cripples or just not too classy to begin with. I would say he made a huge mistake running Patriot Act in stakes as a 2yo, though. I think that is one trap that a lot of trainers of promising babies fall into, much to the detriment of the individual horse.

However, if I were to blame anyone or anything for the failure of those named horses to reach top-class status, I suppose A.P. Indy would fit the bill...but he there are several reasons why he shouldn't be breeding aside from the copious, unsound plodders he begets...

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

No, not at all. He did a great job getting those horses black-type, whether they were cripples or just not too classy to begin with. I would say he made a huge mistake running Patriot Act in stakes as a 2yo, though. I think that is one trap that a lot of trainers of promising babies fall into, much to the detriment of the individual horse.

However, if I were to blame anyone or anything for the failure of those named horses to reach top-class status, I suppose A.P. Indy would fit the bill...but he there are several reasons why he shouldn't be breeding aside from the copious, unsound plodders he begets...

Classic...my compliments!