Whale's past post sets off alarm

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Mike Maloney is not just one of the biggest bettors in the country, he is also one of the sharpest horseplayers alive, and an extremely bright and well-spoken advocate of bettor's rights. To make light of this is a mistake. None of us knows as much as he knows about this situation and I for one listen to anything he has to say and take it all seriously.

The bottom line is that the necessary dollars have not been spent to update our tote system and even one situation like this is too many for me. Laugh and joke all you want but if you put your money through the windows you should be taking this very seriously......and expecting that all racing organizations are acting in kind.

I agree. For this to happen once is one time too many.

And if he was, in fact, punching tickets during the race, you can bet your last dollar others were doing the same.

As an aside, Maloney would be better at running Homeland Security than whoever they have now.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

To make light of this is a mistake. None of us knows as much as he knows about this situation and I for one listen to anything he has to say and take it all seriously.

The bottom line is that the necessary dollars have not been spent to update our tote system and even one situation like this is too many for me. Laugh and joke all you want but if you put your money through the windows you should be taking this very seriously......and expecting that all racing organizations are acting in kind.

Dead on here. The tote systems that racing are using are behind the times. For example, we're told by the tote companies that the reason that there aren't future pools with more than 24 wagering interests is that their systems can't handle it. In this day and age, they've got to be kidding. If they're not, then their systems are not as sophisticated as we're led to believe.

Perception is very important here. I realize that many place their wagers at the last few minutes to post, but I also know that people can adapt to changes in circumstances. If wagering were closed one minute to post, people would adjust over time. As I frequently say to friends of mine, gamblers rarely get shut out on a bet they really want to make.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Dead on here. The tote systems that racing are using are behind the times. For example, we're told by the tote companies that the reason that there aren't future pools with more than 24 wagering interests is that their systems can't handle it. In this day and age, they've got to be kidding. If they're not, then their systems are not as sophisticated as we're led to believe.

Perception is very important here. I realize that many place their wagers at the last few minutes to post, but I also know that people can adapt to changes in circumstances. If wagering were closed one minute to post, people would adjust over time. As I frequently say to friends of mine, gamblers rarely get shut out on a bet they really want to make.

I completely agree. Bettors will most certainly learn to adjust.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I completely agree. Bettors will most certainly learn to adjust.

But it must be uniform for all outlets that accept wagers, live or on line.


When I first moved from NY to California, NY still had the rule that the wagering closed with 2 horses left to load. Well that I guess applied to only NY wagerers. I was often able to cancel wagers at the Del Mar facility, after a start delay due to a horse breaking through the gate. I doubt that was possible at the live track in NY. Nobody should have that type advantage unless all can have it.

I also remember the days at NY tracks that the Daily Double closed 2 minutes to post for race one. Much bigger crowds back then and no problems or mass complaints.

[fpsoxfan]

Interesting argument here as I've read all of the post. If this indeed happened, it's a shame. I'm hoping this doesn't happen again at any track.
It takes away from the integrity of the game. Speaking of integrity, how can anyone respect this Maloney fellow if he knowingly CHEATED. Also would he bloviate on this if he in fact had won his tardy wager. Big Bettor or not, I question his character.. As far as when to shut down the windows. In no way do I want the race to close 2 seconds or two minutes before the gate opens. I'm sure most of the people who support shutting the windows early haven't had to stand in line with the average race fan in quite some time. There has to be technology to prevent betting after the horses have left the gate.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Dead on here. The tote systems that racing are using are behind the times. For example, we're told by the tote companies that the reason that there aren't future pools with more than 24 wagering interests is that their systems can't handle it. In this day and age, they've got to be kidding. If they're not, then their systems are not as sophisticated as we're led to believe.

Perception is very important here. I realize that many place their wagers at the last few minutes to post, but I also know that people can adapt to changes in circumstances. If wagering were closed one minute to post, people would adjust over time. As I frequently say to friends of mine, gamblers rarely get shut out on a bet they really want to make.

That is the truest comment in this thread. They absolutely would adjust.

I wonder if Maloney was expecting this to happen and thus was ready to make his wagers after the race had started. I don't know how others do but whenever I'm in line to place my bet, I'm watching the monitor to see how much time I have. Almost without fail, I have a guy in front of me that takes 10 minutes to make a $2 win bet on a horse and I'm yelling out "come on!" When that last horse goes in, if I haven't gotten to the window, I turn away, figuring that I didn't make it. I wonder if Maloney was watching the race, saw that it had started and wagering hadn't closed and THEN went to try to take advantage or if he knew this was something that regularly happens and was already prepared to take advantage of it. My gut feeling tells me that if he or anyone else is still at the windows attempting to place bets up to 15 seconds after the start of a race, this is something that happens at other times and he was in position to try and take advantage.

[Riot]

That is the truest comment in this thread. They absolutely would adjust.

I know I wouldn't, King. Not unfrequently I like to see odds and wager up until the first few horses are entering the gate. And if there is a horse that won't load, gate problem, etc, I like to get a cancellation and nearly always try and get a cover wager in.

I really don't see this as huge problem in the sport. I understand why odds change as the horses are going down the backstretch. The last thing I think of is nefarious doings.

I wonder if Maloney was expecting this to happen and thus was ready to make his wagers after the race had started.

I deeply doubt it. He said he simply repeated wagers he had already constructed and made. If he knew it could come, I would think a reasonable person would have planned for this contingency and covered or had some reconstructed bets ready to place.

My gut feeling tells me that if he or anyone else is still at the windows attempting to place bets up to 15 seconds after the start of a race, this is something that happens at other times and he was in position to try and take advantage.

If I'm at the window as horses are about to go into the gate, trying to get bets down, I'm no longer watching the monitor as I did in line, I am watching the machine to ensure the teller is actually punching the correct numbers as I spell them out. And I'll keep reeling off the bets I want to make, until she tells me I can't. I can't do that, and watch the monitor, at the same time.

Fifteen seconds just isn't long enough for me to stand in front of the teller at the window, turn to watch the break on the monitor, consider what is unfolding, then tell her and have her place those reconstructed bets for me.

Maybe I'm just slow

[ALostTexan]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That is the truest comment in this thread. They absolutely would adjust.

I wonder if Maloney was expecting this to happen and thus was ready to make his wagers after the race had started. I don't know how others do but whenever I'm in line to place my bet, I'm watching the monitor to see how much time I have. Almost without fail, I have a guy in front of me that takes 10 minutes to make a $2 win bet on a horse and I'm yelling out "come on!" When that last horse goes in, if I haven't gotten to the window, I turn away, figuring that I didn't make it. I wonder if Maloney was watching the race, saw that it had started and wagering hadn't closed and THEN went to try to take advantage or if he knew this was something that regularly happens and was already prepared to take advantage of it. My gut feeling tells me that if he or anyone else is still at the windows attempting to place bets up to 15 seconds after the start of a race, this is something that happens at other times and he was in position to try and take advantage.

No. This is absolutely not what happened. He was not ask anything specific about past-posting. He was ask what he felt was the best and worst thing about horse racing, from a whales perspective. He said that the security of the betting pools needed to be changed. When ask by Dave Johnson to expand on that topic, he said, for instance, he was at Keeneland betting this race at the Fair Grounds, and knew enough about the tote system to know that there was supposed to be a beep when the race was closed, and that he never heard it.

So he began testing the system. 1/8 of a mile into the race, he told the teller to punch another ticket, which went through. Then another 1/8 mile passed, and he had the teller punch another ticket, and continued every 1/8 mile until the machine finally did beep, which he claims was well after half of the race was ran. All the while, he was screaming for the Director of Mutuals to get his ass over to the window to see what was going on. There was no conspiracy between Maloney, the teller, or the Director of Mutuals to rig the system. This was simply a whale who was concerned with the system seeing a flaw in the system and showing it to someone who should be concerned, which was the Director of Mutuals.

In his talk, at least what I got out of it, Maloney seemed like this was not an isolated event, and that he at least didn't hear the beep to shut off wagering before. This was just a time that he saw a time that it could be greatly exploited, he had plenty of late tickets punched as proof, and this was a time that he had the attention of the entire racing world as he was at the Symposium on Racing and Gaming.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by ALostTexan

No. This is absolutely not what happened. He was not ask anything specific about past-posting. He was ask what he felt was the best and worst thing about horse racing, from a whales perspective. He said that the security of the betting pools needed to be changed. When ask by Dave Johnson to expand on that topic, he said, for instance, he was at Keeneland betting this race at the Fair Grounds, and knew enough about the tote system to know that there was supposed to be a beep when the race was closed, and that he never heard it.

So he began testing the system. 1/8 of a mile into the race, he told the teller to punch another ticket, which went through. Then another 1/8 mile passed, and he had the teller punch another ticket, and continued every 1/8 mile until the machine finally did beep, which he claims was well after half of the race was ran. All the while, he was screaming for the Director of Mutuals to get his ass over to the window to see what was going on. There was no conspiracy between Maloney, the teller, or the Director of Mutuals to rig the system. This was simply a whale who was concerned with the system seeing a flaw in the system and showing it to someone who should be concerned, which was the Director of Mutuals.

In his talk, at least what I got out of it, Maloney seemed like this was not an isolated event, and that he at least didn't hear the beep to shut off wagering before. This was just a time that he saw a time that it could be greatly exploited, he had plenty of late tickets punched as proof, and this was a time that he had the attention of the entire racing world as he was at the Symposium on Racing and Gaming.

This Maloney cat is a liar and a cheat. I mean come on. Do you honestly believe this story?