Polyhater... - Page 2

MISTERGEE · #21 07-14-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwkniska

if you adjust your handicapping to polytrack (cheap speed fades and dies out in the stretch) then you can make a ton of $$ from the people betting the cheap speed. I'll keep it... plays to the more astute handicapper.

do you mean the poly favors closers, or is it just more of a fair surface, for example when there is a speed duel the closers can get up to win?

Honu · #22 07-14-2007, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.tsnhorse.com/cgi-bin/edit...le.cgi?id=8468

I guess this dude will have to take up greyhounds or jai-lai

Personally I like his take that we are ruining the breed with Polytrack....

Storm Cat has ruined the breed , the sooner he is pensioned or dies the better off racing will be.

jwkniska · #23 07-14-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

do you mean the poly favors closers, or is it just more of a fair surface, for example when there is a speed duel the closers can get up to win?

the polytrack, at least for AP and KEE, which have the same polytrack mix (and will be the same mix as Del Mar!!!) plays to stalkers and especially closers and has a bias toward them. Anything that goes out quick early on it will tire unless the horse is 10X better than anything else in the field.

Alot of people don't like it, because all they look at are the speed numbers and play the one with the highest rating regardless of class of horse, which will NOT work on polytrack. That also inflates the payouts, as everyone bets the cheap speed that will fade and won't bet a good closer.

It seems that the polytrack plays almost the exact opposite as the 'golden rail' that used to be at Keeneland on dirt and Aqueduct's inner dirt track, where anything that got out front early won. Poly: out front early is normally a bad thing, as the horse will tire and get passed by a good closer.

MISTERGEE · #24 07-14-2007, 08:31 PM

sounds good, what i have hated the most are the tracks where you see maybe 4 speedburners in one race you expect a suicidal duel they go 44 flat and the front runners win anyway!

MISTERGEE · #25 07-14-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honu

Storm Cat has ruined the breed , the sooner he is pensioned or dies the better off racing will be.

can you explain?

jwkniska · #26 07-14-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

sounds good, what i have hated the most are the tracks where you see maybe 4 speedburners in one race you expect a suicidal duel they go 44 flat and the front runners win anyway!

that's also because alot of the jocks figured out that if they take their horse out quick, they're done in the stretch, so they slow it down so that doesn't happen.

Honu · #27 07-14-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

can you explain?

Fragile horses , bad airways, bad feet , bad knees and bad attitudes. How many Storm Cats do you see run as 5 yr olds?

MISTERGEE · #28 07-14-2007, 08:40 PM

a half million dollar stud fee for all that?

JJP · #29 07-14-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwkniska

. Poly: out front early is normally a bad thing, as the horse will tire and get passed by a good closer.

You mean like a horse like.....Dominican? Who entered today with a perfect 3 for 3 synthetic record, had beaten the KY Derby winner over the Poly, and has the correct closing style.

Polytrack plays far more to randomness than either dirt or grass.

GPK · #30 07-14-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honu

Fragile horses , bad airways, bad feet , bad knees and bad attitudes. How many Storm Cats do you see run as 5 yr olds?

You are making too much sense honu......

jwkniska · #31 07-14-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

You mean like a horse like.....Dominican? Who entered today with a perfect 3 for 3 synthetic record, had beaten the KY Derby winner over the Poly, and has the correct closing style.

Polytrack plays far more to randomness than either dirt or grass.

horse looked like it needed a race.... been off too long, which was something I was hoping for today. He'll be better off in his next race.

JJP · #32 07-14-2007, 08:43 PM

Dominican's next race better be on the carpet because he hasn't proven anything on conventional dirt. Or grass, for that matter.

jwkniska · #33 07-14-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

Dominican's next race better be on the carpet because he hasn't proven anything on conventional dirt. Or grass, for that matter.

don't know what his connections are going to do, but if I were them, I'd be looking at shipping to Del Mar.

ateamstupid · #34 07-14-2007, 08:46 PM

From the little AP races I've seen this meet, the poly seems to be pretty fair. KEE, however, was an absolute joke in the spring. Not sure if it's the weather, the upkeep or what, but I'd bet AP over KEE in a heartbeat right now.

Honu · #35 07-14-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

a half million dollar stud fee for all that?

I know , its highway robbery....... My bosses owners dont breed to him very often but we have had about 10 come thru the barn and they are a nightmare. When they gallop they dont bend their knee's , they always have throat issues and need myectomys and tie forward surguries which usually are a waste of time and money and their feet are often mal-conformed and dont match. Sometimes when they come in they are nice to be around but as soon as you start to put the pressure on them they melt mentally.
I dont care if I ever see another Storm Cat bred horse as long as I live , and whats worse are all the sons to him that are out there just throwing that crappy gene to more horses. Good example , Giants Causeway , every single one I have been around has been hard headed , extremely nervous , and not a good doer , they sweat and fret everyday and get so wound up that if they were human they would prolly commit suicide.

Honu · #36 07-14-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

You are making too much sense honu......

plttth

philcski · #37 07-14-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The final time for the 1 and 1/16th race at Arlington over the polycrap with Pavarotti was 1:49 3/5.

The final time for the 1 and 1/8th Swaps over dirt was a full second faster 1:48 3/5.

I wonder if that means Tiago would have won the Arlington race by 35 lengths or so?

Lori the Arlington race was a mile and an eighth as well, they don't run a mile and a sixteenth at Arlington (it's a 9F oval, like Saratoga, so the gate would be like 30 yards from the turn).

PSH · #38 07-14-2007, 08:59 PM

What are some of your favorite stallions that produce offspring that you work with? Also, it appears the Mandella barn is coming on strong with many competitive two year olds. Any that have caught your eye yet to make their first start? Lastly, what are your current favorite horses to work with?

Thanks and i enjoy your comments and perspective that you bring....

PSH

JJP · #39 07-14-2007, 09:02 PM

The Round Table was at 1 1/8 miles but AP DOES run 1 1/16 mile races. They hadn't for years but have run quite a few of them this year, w/the finish line at the 1/16th pole.

philcski · #40 07-14-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

The Round Table was at 1 1/8 miles but AP DOES run 1 1/16 mile races. They hadn't for years but have run quite a few of them this year, w/the finish line at the 1/16th pole.

Did not know that. If they ever get the BC again they should ABSOLUTELY do that for the 2YO races (or back them up to a mile out of the chute, preferably), the 9F was too far for them.