Derby angles

[AeWingnut]

Somer - has anyone kept track of the number of Derby Winners with a 3 syllable name?

btw.. my horse (Street Sense) is going against several of your angles and one of mine. Guess I'm doomed again.

There were a couple years you could take the horse that finished 2nd in the Wood or Santa Anita Derby and put them in the winner's circle.
with other prep winner keyed in the place spot.

Ever since they moved the prep dates around I've been lost

[Cajungator26]

Off the top of my head, Barbaro, Giacomo, Smarty Jones, Funny Cide, War Emblem and Monarchos all fell under the 3 syllable rule.

A few that were not 3 syllable winners (recently) include Fu Pig, Charismatic, Grindstone, Sunday Silence, Winning Colors...

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

OK, as I do every year, here are the Derby angles which I consider and use as PART of handicapping the Derby...they are not RULES they are angles...consider if you like but they don't take the place of handicapping! I will go against them if I really like a horse (example being Barbaro last year). These involve win betting only:
1) Don't bet a gelding (Funny Cide did win in 2003, prior to that Clyde Van Dusen in 1929)
2) Winner must race in April (this is often written as within 5 weeks...Barbaro won the Fla Derby on 4/1 last year...outside 5 weeks but in April, Fla Derby run 3/31 this year...your call)
3) Must have at least 3 preps at three (last was Sunny's Halo in 1983, prior to that was Jet Pilot in 1947)
4) Must have 5 or more lifetime starts (Last was Exterminator in 1918)
5) Must have at least one 3yo prep of 8f or longer (last was Middleground in 1950)
6) No foreign-based horse (last was Canonero II in 1971)
7) No late Nominee (never won)
8) Must have at least one race at two (last was Apollo in 1882)
9) Must not have "RAN CURSE" (Barbaro was first to win)
10) No BCJ Winner (none have won)
11) Must have a stake win prior to Derby (Giacomo broke this in 2005, previous was Canonero II in 1971 but he did win one in Ven)
12) At least 16 pts in DP...prefer 18+ (documented earlier)
13) No more than 2 zeros in DP (no winners)
14) Must finish in top 4 in last prep...some prefer top 3
15) No horse with a million or more in earnings prior to Derby has won (seems to get weaker every year with more preps with large purses but still holds).
16) No horse with Damascus in sire's sire line has won (Curse of Damascus)...not usually many entries and I see no basis for this one, use at your own risk (none this year)
17) No prep race of 10f or longer (no winners). Again, until recently there weren't many...Dubai may run one now? Seldom comes into play.

Bringing to front page one last time...just for info purposes!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

OK, as I do every year, here are the Derby angles which I consider and use as PART of handicapping the Derby...they are not RULES they are angles...consider if you like but they don't take the place of handicapping! I will go against them if I really like a horse (example being Barbaro last year). These involve win betting only:
1) Don't bet a gelding (Funny Cide did win in 2003, prior to that Clyde Van Dusen in 1929)
2) Winner must race in April (this is often written as within 5 weeks...Barbaro won the Fla Derby on 4/1 last year...outside 5 weeks but in April, Fla Derby run 3/31 this year...your call)
3) Must have at least 3 preps at three (last was Sunny's Halo in 1983, prior to that was Jet Pilot in 1947)
4) Must have 5 or more lifetime starts (Last was Exterminator in 1918)
5) Must have at least one 3yo prep of 8f or longer (last was Middleground in 1950)
6) No foreign-based horse (last was Canonero II in 1971)
7) No late Nominee (never won)
8) Must have at least one race at two (last was Apollo in 1882)
9) Must not have "RAN CURSE" (Barbaro was first to win)
10) No BCJ Winner (none have won)
11) Must have a stake win prior to Derby (Giacomo broke this in 2005, previous was Canonero II in 1971 but he did win one in Ven)
12) At least 16 pts in DP...prefer 18+ (documented earlier)
13) No more than 2 zeros in DP (no winners)
14) Must finish in top 4 in last prep...some prefer top 3
15) No horse with a million or more in earnings prior to Derby has won (seems to get weaker every year with more preps with large purses but still holds).
16) No horse with Damascus in sire's sire line has won (Curse of Damascus)...not usually many entries and I see no basis for this one, use at your own risk (none this year)
17) No prep race of 10f or longer (no winners). Again, until recently there weren't many...Dubai may run one now? Seldom comes into play.

Well Street Sense took down 3 of the angles, an achievement almost on par with winning the derby itself.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Well Street Sense took down 3 of the angles, an achievement almost on par with winning the derby itself.

Yeah...frankly the million in earnings and BCJ angles were two I largely ignore, glad to see that jinx broken. Two preps will probably go away with different training philosophy. My top two picks (which I posted Thursday) were Nobiz and Street Sense...clearly SS was the best horse. Good horses overcome angles...Barbaro last year and now SS. #4, 5, 8, & 12 are probably the best of the angles.

[Danzig]

i'm glad to see the 'jinx' broken as well. thought it was b.s. anyway. to single out one race to say it hasn't produced a derby winner....well, glad that's over with!

just hate to see the lightly raced trend continue.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm glad to see the 'jinx' broken as well. thought it was b.s. anyway. to single out one race to say it hasn't produced a derby winner....well, glad that's over with!

just hate to see the lightly raced trend continue.

The BCJ was always connected to the three race angle...winner of the BCJ was always hard-pressed to get three preps in as the connections usually needed to give the BCJ winner some time off. Then also, a lot of precocious types won the BCJ for awhile...that has changed recently so I suspect we'll see more BCJ winners win the Derby. Should point out that it wasn't just the BCJ however, the last 2yo champ to win the Derby had been The Bid prior to today!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The BCJ was always connected to the three race angle...winner of the BCJ was always hard-pressed to get three preps in as the connections usually needed to give the BCJ winner some time off. Then also, a lot of precocious types won the BCJ for awhile...that has changed recently so I suspect we'll see more BCJ winners win the Derby. Should point out that it wasn't just the BCJ however, the last 2yo champ to win the Derby had been The Bid prior to today!

yeah, i heard that and realized it had been that long since the top 2 yo took the derby. that's a looong time to wait.

so i hope that those who are already screaming triple crown keep that in mind--about the bid, as well as so many others that tried to make history. of course this year, there's only one horse who can do it now. we shall see.