Flower Alley

[brockguy]

Flower Alley is certianly the horse to beat this year. He has proven form whereas the 3yos still need to improve considerably to figure. Obviously, they will but I reckon there is still more to come from FA and as Oracle said, Pletcher will have him spot on BCC day±!

Originally Posted by Gander

What did he end up going off at Mike?

You are right, it was a salty group and I would have taken a shot with Network if he was 4/1 or higher.

He went off at 1/2

Originally Posted by Gander

What did he end up going off at Mike?

You are right, it was a salty group and I would have taken a shot with Network if he was 4/1 or higher.

Tim I dunno what he went off at. Only a degenerate would have taken a horse off a 9 month layoff in the slop at odds on. I think he was like 2-5. Tim I love the game, I don't have to have a penny on a race to get real pumped up about watching a horse i love run and being excited about a performance. Its no different than you watching the Red Sox and getting so excited. I guess I find you hypocritcal with that signature line and all. I know guys who bet baseball and wouldnt watch a game unless they had cash on it. They would find you to be a liar if you said you had gotten so excited that the Sox won today without cash on em. This is a sport that soem of us really love, and you don't have to have money on a horse to get excited to see him win. You used to be like that, I wish you could get back there and enjoy the game again.

[Gander]

I wasnt pointing fun at you Mike, sorry if you ever took it that way. My bad, I will change it and you are right about the Red Sox, I need not have $ on them.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Tim I dunno what he went off at. Only a degenerate would have taken a horse off a 9 month layoff in the slop at odds on. I think he was like 2-5. Tim I love the game, I don't have to have a penny on a race to get real pumped up about watching a horse i love run and being excited about a performance. Its no different than you watching the Red Sox and getting so excited. I guess I find you hypocritcal with that signature line and all. I know guys who bet baseball and wouldnt watch a game unless they had cash on it. They would find you to be a liar if you said you had gotten so excited that the Sox won today without cash on em. This is a sport that soem of us really love, and you don't have to have money on a horse to get excited to see him win. You used to be like that, I wish you could get back there and enjoy the game again.

Ha! I was trying to tell my wife today at Arlington (Flower Alley has been her favorite since the Lanes End last year) that it made no sense to bet him in the race today for all of those reasons. In the slop? 8 month layoff? odds on favorite? I didn't bet against him, but it sure didn't make sense to me to bet on him either. She replied by saying "well he is my favorite horse and he is by far the best horse in the race."
I couldn't argue with that, so she bet him to win and made a little. I guess if your favorite horse is also the best horse in a race, it makes sense to play him.
I'm not sure he'll lose this year.

Originally Posted by miraja2

Ha! I was trying to tell my wife today at Arlington (Flower Alley has been her favorite since the Lanes End last year) that it made no sense to bet him in the race today for all of those reasons. In the slop? 8 month layoff? odds on favorite? I didn't bet against him, but it sure didn't make sense to me to bet on him either. She replied by saying "well he is my favorite horse and he is by far the best horse in the race."
I couldn't argue with that, so she bet him to win and made a little. I guess if your favorite horse is also the best horse in a race, it makes sense to play him.
I'm not sure he'll lose this year.

Miraja,
If you are able to "guess" that a legitimate breathing problem caused the JCGC and draw a line through it, he was an absolute developing star last year. His Spa races were awesome, and I was beginning to think that I was the only one who realized how great his BCC was. I mean, St Liam was a lot better horse than he gets credit for. FA had him all out to get by teh whole stretch and was well clear of soem pretty nice older horses. His sheet numbers were just crazy good. I've been preaching and stomping my feet since that race that he was gonna be a KILLER this year.
There was no setback. Todd said so in today's DRF and hes a pretty level guy with the media. They just decided to go for the races that matter. To me, the Whitney and the BCC are the two that I would want more than any other race if I were an owner of an older horse. Yeah sure, there are some bigger purse money races than the Whitney, but nowhere near as prestigious and lets face it, the owner isn't a millionaire, hes a billionaire. he doesnt care about the purses. Hes already won the Travers and winning a race like the Donn or Foster or im Special wasnt give him more status. The Whitney and BCC can do that.

Hmmm ... Flower Alley went a mile in 1:35.4.

A few races earlier ... $25,000 maiden claimers went a mile in 1:36 ... and they still had another 1/16 to go.

Not impressive at all time-wise ... but it was his first outing in eight months ... so there's room for improvement ...

... and he'll need to improve a lot in order to compete with Mayan King.

I don't think it'll happen ... but good luck.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well I guess I was right about it being by design that he started late this year, Pletcher said no setbacks on the front page of the DRF today. he just ran on a wet track in his 2006 debut and just switched leads late and crushed em with a great last 1/4. All you guys who were chiding me about saying hes the best this year, no doubt, and where has he been blah blah. Well hes back, and back in style and hes going to be the head honcho this year!!!!!! Eat that BOYS!!!

Bernardini leaves more talent in his stall every morning than Flower Alley has all together....I, for one, still think somthing was bothering Flower Alley to not try to make the Gr. I Stephen Foster, especially since the BC Classic will be there this year....Pletcher won't admit it but everybody knows that he is one of the most tight-lipped trainers in the world...he wouldn't show his hand with any horse and especially a horse with a potential big-time stud deal on the horizon (I've had to interview him SEVERAL of times...he doesn't offer any information).....he's not the soundest animal on earth - that I can assure you of....I watched him train at CD during Derby week and he looked a little crabby to me....nice, big chestnut and he is talented, but you can have him as your Handicap division pick....I think Bernardini will break him in half in the JC Gold Cup before the BC if they both make it that far...

[Danzig]

it's just a shame (to me) that this horse had to be gone so long between the bcc and his four year old debut.

i guess one way to look at it is that there used to be a 'season' to racing. everyone stopped in the fall, no racing in winter, and then everyone started back in the spring. now there's racing all year thru--which is good for fans, but not so good for horses.

but is it really and truly too much to ask that a horse run more than a few times a year? i guess for some it is.

yeah, hoy may not be earned in the first half of the year, but i don't think it should be earned exclusively in the second half either.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Bernardini leaves more talent in his stall every morning than Flower Alley has all together....I, for one, still think somthing was bothering Flower Alley to not try to make the Gr. I Stephen Foster, especially since the BC Classic will be there this year....Pletcher won't admit it but everybody knows that he is one of the most tight-lipped trainers in the world...he wouldn't show his hand with any horse and especially a horse with a potential big-time stud deal on the horizon.....he's not the soundest animal on earth - that I can assure you of....I watched him train at CD during Derby week and he looked a little crabby to me....nice, big chestnut and he is talented, but you can have him as your Handicap division pick....I think Bernardini will break him in half in the JC Gold Cup before the BC if they both make it that far...

Ok Joel, Todds a liar. Great. He may be tight lipped but hes not a liar, there is a difference and his word is as good as anyones. If he says today point blank that there was no setback thats good enough for me. With all due respect I don't know you, but i do know Todd, and I have to take what he says as truth. Hes about as bright and honorable as anyone in this game. Tight lipped doesnt mean that he would lie and say there was no setback.

Wake me up when Bernadini beats a field where the main competitors dont get injured. Luxembourg went wrong in the Withers(you will notice he hasnt been seen since) and Bro Derek smashed his face in the gate and we all know what happened to Barbaro. Not saying he isnt very talented, but he has much to prove.

[Danzig]

i agree that bernardini has much to prove.

as for bro derek, i think i've sold that horse short in the past. two hard races, both with HUGE reasons why that horse coulda/shoulda thrown in the towel, but didn't.

that horse may be a lot of things, but heartless derek isn't.

[blackthroatedwind]

Suggesting he called Todd a liar is more than a little harsh, and you know that, and as someone with a little experience in this game I think you know exactly what that poster was inferring. Believe it or not, people tend to not tell the whole story more than occasionally in this game. I am with the other poster that Flower Alley more than likely had some sort of problem. Luckily it wasn't enough to end his career, as he's a very nice horse, and God knows we need more good horses. Some of the dreck that have been competing in our so-called marquee races for older horses don't even belong in competitive Grade 3s.

I have always liked Flower Alley ever since the insane ride Chavez gave him in the Derby, and don't disagree that as of now he has as much right to be the top older horse as any in the country. However, I am not going to get worked up over his win today against four overmatched opponents ( no, they weren't slugs, but they were hardly a noteworthy bunch ). And, just as we would have forgiven him had he struggled in the mud, we should also at least entertain the possibility that he relished it. I highly doubt you are one to draw conclusive opinions from wet track races...either positively or negatively.

Let's also keep in mind that this is a barn that fires on all cylanders when running fresh horses. More than a few have looked great early only to fizzle out badly. I doubt I need to supply any examples as they are plentiful.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Suggesting he called Todd a liar is more than a little harsh, and you know that, and as someone with a little experience in this game I think you know exactly what that poster was inferring. Believe it or not, people tend to not tell the whole story more than occasionally in this game. I am with the other poster that Flower Alley more than likely had some sort of problem. Luckily it wasn't enough to end his career, as he's a very nice horse, and God knows we need more good horses. Some of the dreck that have been competing in our so-called marquee races for older horses don't even belong in competitive Grade 3s.

I have always liked Flower Alley ever since the insane ride Chavez gave him in the Derby, and don't disagree that as of now he has as much right to be the top older horse as any in the country. However, I am not going to get worked up over his win today against four overmatched opponents ( no, they weren't slugs, but they were hardly a noteworthy bunch ). And, just as we would have forgiven him had he struggled in the mud, we should also at least entertain the possibility that he relished it. I highly doubt you are one to draw conclusive opinions from wet track races...either positively or negatively.

Let's also keep in mind that this is a barn that fires on all cylanders when running fresh horses. More than a few have looked great early only to fizzle out badly. I doubt I need to supply any examples as they are plentiful.

Black he said in todays DRF that there was no setback. Like you both I was thinking the same thing until I read that. Todd is indeed tight lipped, but for him to offer that up tells me that there was no setback. He could have avoided that question in a variety of ways, he said no setback.

[blackthroatedwind]

God, I hope that's not the first half-truth ever printed in a newspaper.

I like and respect Todd, but pardon me if I remain skeptical, I've just been around this game too long to be otherwise.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

God, I hope that's not the first half-truth ever printed in a newspaper.

I like and respect Todd, but pardon me if I remain skeptical, I've just been around this game too long to be otherwise.

I am the same way, but I truly think they planned a late start and when he came back it took em a while to get off the weight and get him fit, he may have been off TOO long. He looked much larger than he did last year today. I'm not the best source on horses looks but I pulled last years BCC I have stored and compared it to todays. He looked much bigger.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I am the same way, but I truly think they planned a late start and when he came back it took em a while to get off the weight and get him fit, he may have been off TOO long. He looked much larger than he did last year today. I'm not the best source on horses looks but I pulled last years BCC I have stored and compared it to todays. He looked much bigger.

I sat on the rail at CD Derby week last year with my former boss, Steve Fugitte, and Todd gallopped by with a grey colt and we asked if it was Argento and he said - and I quote..."**** you"...and ever since then I realized the type of man he was.....he may be great, but you don't tell a VP at CD to "**** off" for no reason when they ask if a particular horse was Argento (who was a cheap allowance turf colt that Pletcher had)....by the way, I know it was him...just thought it was hilarious that Pletcher was defensive...the horse never ran for a tag anyway......to say that Pletcher is 100% an honest and straight-shooting guy would be 100% bull****...he has an agenda and he always follows it....

[Scurlogue Champ]

Not to defend Pletcher, but I don't think Todd was the first one to tell Fugitte to **** off...nor the only one who wanted to.

Funny the perception of Pletcher though, I have heard quite a few similar stories concerning him and his "team."

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I sat on the rail at CD Derby week last year with my former boss, Steve Fugitte, and Todd gallopped by with a grey colt and we asked if it was Argento and he said - and I quote..."**** you"...and ever since then I realized the type of man he was.....he may be great, but you don't tell a VP at CD to "**** off" for no reason when they ask if a particular horse was Argento (who was a cheap allowance turf colt that Pletcher had)....by the way, I know it was him...just thought it was hilarious that Pletcher was defensive...the horse never ran for a tag anyway......to say that Pletcher is 100% an honest and straight-shooting guy would be 100% bull****...he has an agenda and he always follows it....

WE Nyers tend to treat trash like trash. And Fugitte deserves respect because????? Refresh my memory please?

[quote=moodwalker]Not to defend Pletcher, but I don't think Todd was the first one to tell Fugitte to **** off...nor the only one who wanted to.

Funny the perception of Pletcher though, I have heard quite a few similar stories concerning him and his "team."[/QUOTE

What business does a former trainer who couldnt make it on his own have asking a trainer who the horse is that he is galloping? Sorry but the last time I checked if you weren't the friend of that trainer, you have absolutely no business asking that question. He could be dropped in for a tag at some point.

Joel I don't know how old you are but you need to grow up a whole lot in terms of maturity.
You had absolutely no right to tell that story about Todd and the rail comment, none!!! This may surprise you but many people here are very well connected in this game, moreso than you. All of us have stories about trainers, owners, and jockeys dropping f bombs, losing tempers, getting in arguments or fights. etc. Only a real classless guy would post them on here. Its really noones business what Todd says or does in private. I doubt every highly that he just did that on the spur of the moment to be a mean guy. Lots of tensions and histories at the racetrack, and lots of background that isn't always known. Perhaps he and Fugitte had a past problem, perhaps they had a beef about something. Either way, only a real classless and immature guy would post something like that here. Tell you what, I will make sure that Todd knows about what you alleged on here. Good luck getting a story or interview from him after that. You had absolutely no right to post that and you need to think things through better before you post them. You aren't impressing people who are in the know, you are achieving the opposite.