Racing product is Fine?

[Grits]

We disagree, and that's fine.

[Linny]

Over the last 20+ years, many of the top US breds have left our shores. Before the mid 80's the # of top runners that went overseas permanently was pretty small. Mr Mellon raced some in Europe as did Bunker Hunt. Once the Sangster crew then the Sheikhs then Coolmore and the Japanese began spending like sailors in port, a significant % of the elite members of the breed left for good.
The international quality of racing is great except that there are almost no outcrosses left. In the 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's when breeders saw stagnation they imported. Horses like Sir Gallahad, Bull Dog, Blenheim, Princequillo and Nasrullah added to the breed here. Now you travel to the ends of the globe and get what? A Northern Dancer great grandson, from Raise Native on the bottom. Now with horses covering in both hemispheres, international leases and the ease of shipping, finding full outcrosses is rare.

I am not in favor of having only "A" tracks any more than I endorse baseball dropping the lowest performing teams. What exactly would happen to the rest of the animals? Sure over time moderate to small breeders would just stop producing horses but then what? Where do all those slow Storm Cat's go? You must consider the entire industry. Hundreds of thousands of people depend on racing for their livelihood. The breeder, at any level hires help, vets and farriers. They buy products like feed, strap goods, blankets, buckets and fencing from folks who are also dependent upon racing breeders. The trainers and their staff obviously are employed in the game but those who provide them services and goods also need the industry to thrive. The 30,000+ registered TB's foaled each season will generate millions of dollars in accounts payable to everyone from vets to leather goods makers to accountants and hay growers.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

the big a needs to go, saratoga needs to stay open a month longer and belmont needs to open at the begining of march so they can run derby preps still........i guess something like this Belmont March 1- July 1........... Saratoga July 3- Labor day.........Belmont A week after labor day-December 1

no Ny racing from dec 2- march 1

I'm sure everyone wants to run a one turn mile and an eighth for a derby prep. The Big A is what it is. The inner dirt makes you appreciate the rest of the year in N.Y. There are still some good races on the inner, just not every day. Take a look at Wednesdays card.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Grits

(3) The most recent Icon of their breeding program, DEEP IMPACT is another sired by Sunday Silence. This one couldn't lose, the greatest thing since rice. He was shipped to France last October, where he went off at near even money in the Arc de Triomphe.

The entire country, it appeared, was in the stands and on the rail, to watch their champion. Their screams turned silent as they watched him beaten by the great French turf trainer, Andre Fabre's, RAIL LINK, who on that day I had wagered to win. Deep Impact finished a disappointing third, and days later, it was announced he tested POSITIVE for an illegal drug.

So did you actually attend the Arc, and see the throngs of Japanese fans and hear their screams? Because if you didn't where did you get that information? I thought the point of your response was that the Japanese are still learning from us about horse racing. Why then would you seem to take such delight in recounting both the number and sadness of the Japanese fans? Was that somehow the wrong thing to do, to travel to Paris to cheer for their hero? Was your winning wager somehow sweeter because you knew how disappointed those people were?

No Deep Impact didn't win that race, and who knows why he raced on the lead anyway. But its only fair to mention that as shattered as the Japanese fans dreams were for their hero, they weren't as bad off as the fans of the reigning Arc champion and at that time current #1 ranked horse in the world Hurricane Run who was badly beaten that day by Deep Impact. Did you happen to notice their silence, or were you only focused on the sadness of the Japanese fans?

Or how about another failure on that day, the leading charge of trainer Andre Fabre, Shirocco? Surely there were pockets of German backers of Shirocco that were crushed.

No non-European horse has ever won the Arc. I think they took a big risk and were very sporting to give it a go. That they found trace amounts of a drug in his system that is legal in Japan I file under the heading "What a Shocker!"
Anyway I somehow doubt that we are the model to follow or learn from when it comes to drugs in horses.

Originally Posted by Grits

...SUNDAY SILENCE is the greatest coup the Japanese ever pulled off. EVER.

Breaking the previous record held by: Pearl Harbor.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by easy goer

Breaking the previous record held by: Pearl Harbor.

ouch!


i have to say i strongly disagree with something i read the other day from a breeder. he said that racing is to show who deserves to breed future generations. i think that those on the track who win show that their SIRE is the one who deserves to breed future generations!! on track success means nothing regarding that horses future--but everything to his sires future. too many people have lost that point. citation and coal town showed everyone what bull lea could do--he was a top sire for years with good reason, he sired good horses. citation was a heck of a racehorse, but a dismal failure as a sire. had everyone gone to his daddy to breed they'd have been far better off.

it's amazing to me how many derby winners fail at stud, yet every year everyone makes a mad dash to get the winner for their farm. it's crazy.

[Linny]

I assume that you are referring to barry Irwin's comments.
I agree with him to a certain extent. Racings origins were in "improvement of the breed" and racing was just done to prove which animals deserved to reproduce. The issue I have is that what constitutes "proof" has changed, and diminished over the decades. With that change the breed has weakened. "Proof" used to involve 3 or more seasons of racing, taking on the best of challengers, carrying weight while usually racing 30 or 40 times. Horse transport was far more difficult "in the day" and yet horses shipped all over the country to race.
The current definition of "proof" involves earning a high BSF at 2 and maybe winning something at 3. For a "classic" colt, it means completing the TC. All you have to do is get throught the Belmont and somehow now you are a "top stallion prospect." You don't have to win the classics, just run and survive them. Forty or more years ago such horses were the cannon fodder for everyday races 2 years past their TC tries. Today they are elite stallion prospects.

By 2015, the fastest working 2yo at the sales will be bought and promptly retired, with nothing left to prove.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Linny

I assume that you are referring to barry Irwin's comments.
I agree with him to a certain extent. Racings origins were in "improvement of the breed" and racing was just done to prove which animals deserved to reproduce. The issue I have is that what constitutes "proof" has changed, and diminished over the decades. With that change the breed has weakened. "Proof" used to involve 3 or more seasons of racing, taking on the best of challengers, carrying weight while usually racing 30 or 40 times. Horse transport was far more difficult "in the day" and yet horses shipped all over the country to race.
The current definition of "proof" involves earning a high BSF at 2 and maybe winning something at 3. For a "classic" colt, it means completing the TC. All you have to do is get throught the Belmont and somehow now you are a "top stallion prospect." You don't have to win the classics, just run and survive them. Forty or more years ago such horses were the cannon fodder for everyday races 2 years past their TC tries. Today they are elite stallion prospects.

By 2015, the fastest working 2yo at the sales will be bought and promptly retired, with nothing left to prove.

Didn't they already do that with Holy Roman Emperor?

[Linny]

See, I am a woman ahead of my time.

[Left Bank]

Here is The Crist article
http://www.drf.com/news/article/83135.html

[Linny]

Some racing venues require that a horse finish 4th or better once in a certain number of races, or a certain time to remain eligible to race.

If a horse cannot earn a recognizable BSF, it should not be racing in NY.