Asmussen: No Rachel for Blossom

[Smooth Operator]

No surprise that the RA fans want to torch this thread


Chicken Alexander … lol

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

No surprise that the RA fans want to torch this threadl

The irony of this post is that of the 4 fascists who want the thread locked (because its too difficult to exercise some self-control and pass over a thread title that's in bolded blue), the only one who actually contributed in a sensible manner is a Zenyatta supporter.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What's great about your smugness is that of the 200-odd posts on this thread, you single handedly came up with the most idiotic post (your only contribution, of course--other than this final gem) of all:

I expect Zenyatta to lose [the Apple Blossom] anyway.

Didn't realize they ran the Apple Blossom yet.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The irony of this post is that of the 4 fascists who want the thread locked (because its too difficult to exercise some self-control and pass over a thread title that's in bolded blue), the only one who actually contributed in a sensible manner is a Zenyatta supporter.

I am assuming the mantle of sensibility --and I am a Z fan, though I respect Rachel and appreciate her accomplishments..

I am essentially in agreement with your earlier post-with some qualifications, but they are not all that important and probably are nit picky...

I am curious why you would think Z will lose the AB though ...

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The only thing more useless and more circumstantial than an unbeaten record is the earnings record.

Has logic consistently been applied by Jess Jackson to his decisions or, heck, his sentence construction? Did I miss something? He wanted that earnings record with Curlin once it came within reach and why wouldn't anybody? Protecting his interests in RA & Curlin at the same time ain't unreasonable. Just because you wouldn't do it, doesn't mean it wouldn't be done by Jess Jackson. It'd be bad enough to lose to Z, worse to watch her then eclipse Curlin's $$ record on top of everything, which she'd eventually do. Earnings records have mattered for years. It mattered with Citation.

As for unbeaten records, uh yeah that matters too. Just ask the folks with Pepper's Pride. There's gonna be a Tiznow-Pepper's Pride young'un this year because of it (probably is already, she was bred last March). The racing media sure reported on it like it was a thing to be impressed by. The Mosses didn't exactly throw caution to the wind all of last year. Z's campaign up to the Classic was relatively conservative. They sure seemed to care at least a bit about her unbeaten record, unless I missed something. Farms promote stallions like Seattle Slew and Smarty Jones as having done big things on the TC trail while unbeaten. It comes up virtually every time some talks about Personal Ensign. But yeah, who cares?

As for RA fans v. Zenyatta fans. Sorry folks, I consider myself a supporter of both horses. This ain't either/or. Calm down.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by prudery

I am assuming the mantle of sensibility --and I am a Z fan, though I respect Rachel and appreciate her accomplishments..

No, you weren't one of the 4 who wanted the thread locked.

I am curious why you would think Z will lose the AB though ...

No, that was randallscott. He said the thread was "idiotic". His throwaway post predicting a loss in the Apple Blossom way at the start went a long way in validating that description.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

No, you weren't one of the 4 who wanted the thread locked.



No, that was randallscott. He said the thread was "idiotic". His throwaway post predicting a loss in the Apple Blossom way at the start went a long way in validating that description.

Sorry---I am tired tonight--it was Randall .

Wish all the Z vs R squabbles were this civilized as both mares have much to offer racing .....

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Has logic consistently been applied by Jess Jackson to his decisions or, heck, his sentence construction? Did I miss something? He wanted that earnings record with Curlin once it came within reach and why wouldn't anybody? Protecting his interests in RA & Curlin at the same time ain't unreasonable. Just because you wouldn't do it, doesn't mean it wouldn't be done by Jess Jackson. It'd be bad enough to lose to Z, worse to watch her then eclipse Curlin's $$ record on top of everything, which she'd eventually do. Earnings records have mattered for years. It mattered with Citation.

Let's be clear, I made a general statement that anybody that would campaign their top class horses with those things (ie money records, unbeaten streaks) in mind is making a mistake. Now, did I disagree with you and say Jess Jackson wouldn't do it?

Nope.

As for unbeaten records, uh yeah that matters too. Just ask the folks with Pepper's Pride. There's gonna be a Tiznow-Pepper's Pride young'un this year because of it (probably is already, she was bred last March).

Yeah, they wouldn't have had a shot to breed her to Tiznow if she only won 18 out of 19.

Pepper's Pride lost the Tiznow foal in November according to the DRF, by the way.

The racing media sure reported on it like it was a thing to be impressed by.

Well, that settles that.

The Mosses didn't exactly throw caution to the wind all of last year.
Z's campaign up to the Classic was relatively conservative. They sure seemed to care at least a bit about her unbeaten record, unless I missed something.

That's the whole point of my post, if you had actually bothered to read it for the actual content, rather than coming to the ridiculous conclusion that I must be blasting you because I didn't blindly agree with what you posted.

Farms promote stallions like Seattle Slew and Smarty Jones as having done big things on the TC trail while unbeaten. It comes up virtually every time some talks about Personal Ensign. But yeah, who cares?

The point was that altering a horse's campaign for a money record or an unbeaten career is a foolish enterprise, that IMO, takes away from the horse's legacy. Did Seattle Slew or Smarty Jones skip the Belmont and point for the Ohio Derby to preserve their unbeaten streaks?

As for RA fans v. Zenyatta fans. Sorry folks, I consider myself a supporter of both horses. This ain't either/or. Calm down.

Clearly not a supporter of literacy, however. I like how you tell everyone else to "calm down" when you completely lost your wad reacting (and misinterpreting) to a single sentence.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by prudery

Wish all the Z vs R squabbles were this civilized as both mares have much to offer racing .....

I agree, we're blessed to have both of them. I still haven't gotten a Triple Crown, but I've gotten these ladies radiating talent and charisma race after race, and I'm pretty grateful.

What do you think happened to those collector cards they were gonna hand out? Did they ever print them? They'd actually be great souvenirs even without RA & Z meeting in the Apple Blossom. Hardly "Dewey Defeats Truman" but interesting racing pieces, esp. if they have an epic showdown later.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

I agree, we're blessed to have both of them. I still haven't gotten a Triple Crown, but I've gotten these ladies radiating talent and charisma race after race, and I'm pretty grateful.

What do you think happened to those collector cards they were gonna hand out? Did they ever print them? They'd actually be great souvenirs even without RA & Z meeting in the Apple Blossom. Hardly "Dewey Defeats Truman" but interesting racing pieces, esp. if they have an epic showdown later.

Apparently they did ...

Some people I know got some, and there are some already on Ebay ...

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by prudery

Wish all the Z vs R squabbles were this civilized as both mares have much to offer racing .....

Agreed. For what its worth, my criticisms are directed at the connections of the two horses. And while I criticize the Mosses to no end, that doesn't mean I support Jess Jackson lock, stock, and barrel.

If there was one thing worthwhile in Merlinsky's post above, it was that this does not have to be an "either/or" issue.

Though a lot of obnoxious posters on this board seem to think, and presume, so.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Agreed. For what its worth, my criticisms are directed at the connections of the two horses. And while I criticize the Mosses to no end, that doesn't mean I support Jess Jackson lock, stock, and barrel.

If there was one thing worthwhile in Merlinsky's post above, it was that this does not have to be an "either/or" issue.

Though a lot of obnoxious posters on this board seem to think, and presume, so.

The either/or or black/white dichotomy--as I call it is not exclusive to arguing about horses--it is all pervasive ...

I also have had " problems " with both connections, and while I do not support the Mosses entirely, I find Jackson more of a public relations shill type ...

[Merlinsky]

This isn't actually an effort to go point by point and call you obnoxious, I swear. I know breaking it down can look like that, and I think we've gotten caught up in the classic 'misinterpretation of tone on the internet' situation.

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Let's be clear, I made a general statement that anybody that would campaign their top class horses with those things (ie money records, unbeaten streaks) in mind is making a mistake. Now, did I disagree with you and say Jess Jackson wouldn't do it?

Nope.

That's just it, it's not useless to everyone even if it's just sentimental for some folks. If it's your horse, and you bet on your horse, I could imagine it mattering from a financial standpoint. Don't some of these owners drop a lot of cash wagering on their own horses? Thinking your horse is invincible or is in a soft spot could affect your wallet.

Regarding Pepper's Pride's foal, that's very sad. My point with her you gotta wonder if going 6-7-6 entirely in New Mexico would get her a date with Tiznow--her record demonstrated consistently, soundness, talent. Not that constantly being on the board doesn't. This just raises it to another level. The efforts of her team (and of Zenyatta's) is also highlighted by the achievement because it's no small thing to do. The record could be a feather in the cap of the trainer that conditioned a horse to do it, yes? It doesn't matter what level, it's something that gets a trainer press, and I would hope getting good press attracts people to their stable. The aura of being a winner, evident horsemanship, etc.

That's the whole point of my post, if you had actually bothered to read it for the actual content, rather than coming to the ridiculous conclusion that I must be blasting you because I didn't blindly agree with what you posted.

You said "The only thing more useless and more circumstantial than an unbeaten record is the earnings record.", I felt it was easily understood. Perhaps not. The words you chose seem to carry an implied and it felt like a dismissal of my thought as foolish. You did quote me, and reading your remark with my quote it sure came across as snarky. Did you not mean for that tone to exist in that sentence? All you need to do is say "I think you misunderstood me."

The point was that altering a horse's campaign for a money record or an unbeaten career is a foolish enterprise, that IMO, takes away from the horse's legacy. Did Seattle Slew or Smarty Jones skip the Belmont and point for the Ohio Derby to preserve their unbeaten streaks?

Well of course they didn't skip the Belmont, because a Triple Crown is even more important to them. They did mention it on ads though, I've read them. Why do that if they didn't think it would matter? I don't disagree that it can damage a legacy, although I do wonder how much damage it does to Zenyatta since she very nearly won Horse of the Year in spite of it. I agree with you that a legacy can be stronger when there's not a protectionist attitude. (I agreed with you! Let's hug!) It bugged me when Azeri could've branched out and didn't, and I will still wonder what could've been with Zenyatta even though she's won a BC Classic. How weird for that not to be enough.

Clearly not a supporter of literacy, however. I like how you tell everyone else to "calm down" when you completely lost your wad reacting (and misinterpreting) to a single sentence.

I offer you this not as a counterpoint (since we've clearly crossed wires) but as a source of amusement--I have a B.A. in English. Making observations about tone conveyed in text is something I've had to do many a time. I don't worry as much about proper grammar and punctuation on a message board. Clearly I've used my powers of analysis for evil.

If there was one thing worthwhile in Merlinsky's post above, it was that this does not have to be an "either/or" issue.

Aw shucks. A quasi-compliment.

[Indian Charlie]

This thread woulda been 21 pages long if KG was still around.

Oyy.

[letswastemoney]

Zardana ducks Zenyatta!

If Zenyatta was truly the best, why is Shirreffs afraid of running Zardana?

Oh well, it's a conflict of interest probably. If Zardana was kept in the race, Shirreffs could have very well undertrained Zardana somehow because his heart is set on Zenyatta winning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=5032043

"The Apple Blossom field will not include Zardana or Rachel Alexandra, one-two finishers in the New Orleans Ladies at Fair Grounds on March 13. Shirreffs and owner Arnold Zetcher said Friday that Zardana will skip the Apple Blossom on April 9 and point instead for the Grade 2 La Troienne Stakes on April 30 at Churchill Downs. Zardana "could use a little time off," Zetcher said. He and Shirreffs also believe the 1 1/16-mile distance of the La Troienne suits Zardana more than the 1 1/8-mile Apple Blossom. "

[PeteMugg]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Zardana ducks Zenyatta!

If Zenyatta was truly the best, why is Shirreffs afraid of running Zardana?

Oh well, it's a conflict of interest probably. If Zardana was kept in the race, Shirreffs could have very well undertrained Zardana somehow because his heart is set on Zenyatta winning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=5032043

"The Apple Blossom field will not include Zardana or Rachel Alexandra, one-two finishers in the New Orleans Ladies at Fair Grounds on March 13. Shirreffs and owner Arnold Zetcher said Friday that Zardana will skip the Apple Blossom on April 9 and point instead for the Grade 2 La Troienne Stakes on April 30 at Churchill Downs. Zardana "could use a little time off," Zetcher said. He and Shirreffs also believe the 1 1/16-mile distance of the La Troienne suits Zardana more than the 1 1/8-mile Apple Blossom. "

Zardana should be just as sharp as Rachel. I guess neither are quite ready for the Apple Blossom.

[the_fat_man]

Exactly right. The 3rd stringer in the barn beats the reigning horse of the year, pretty much GUTS her

BUT here (and on other forums)

it's really all about how the connections want to PROTECT a horse that's 15 for 15 ; in this case by not running her caddy against her.

Nothing like emulating Mike the Eunuch.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Exactly right. The 3rd stringer in the barn beats the reigning horse of the year, pretty much GUTS her

BUT here (and on other forums)

it's really all about how the connections want to PROTECT a horse that's 15 for 15 ; in this case by not running her caddy against her.

Nothing like emulating Mike the Eunuch.

There clearly are ducking Zenyatta to protect Zenyatta's record

Zetcher has been quoted as wanting "to be in the big races" for the past month.

And now all of a sudden he changes his mind and decides a race with a lesser purse at Churchill is more important?

It's more likely Shirreffs had a talk with him or that Zetcher realized it would be a conflict of interest

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

There clearly are ducking Zenyatta to protect Zenyatta's record

Zetcher has been quoted as wanting "to be in the big races" for the past month.

And now all of a sudden he changes his mind and decides a race with a lesser purse at Churchill is more important?

It's more likely Shirreffs had a talk with him or that Zetcher realized it would be a conflict of interest

...wow

[10 pnt move up]

Do people really think Zardana is a good horse, or is it she caught a great horse on a bad day and setup?