Thank You Mine That Bird - Page 14

MaTH716 · #**261** 05-03-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The thing with the drop back move is that so many of the horses in the race are incapable of going 10 furlongs at race speed. Borel takes advantage of this... he basically removes himself from the 'meat' of the race and asks the horse to run for 3 1/2-4 furlongs while most everyone else is asked to run harder longer.

He basically rode the Derby the same way three years in a row now, and is 3-2-0-1. Not bad.

It's amazing that in 19 & 20 horse fields that he has been able to stay away from trouble and take advantage of ground saving rail skimming trips.
I forgot who said it, but obviously he has gotten through on the biggest of stages. How many times does he not get through (maybe when he does have the best horse) when the world is not watching?

dalakhani · #**262** 05-03-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

One guy on this board scored out with good ticket structure on the derby- and it sure as hell wasn't me.

how did you do overall?

dalakhani · #**263** 05-03-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

It's amazing that in 19 & 20 horse fields that he has been able to stay away from trouble and take advantage of ground saving rail skimming trips.
I forgot who said it, but obviously he has gotten through on the biggest of stages. How many times does he not get through (maybe when he does have the best horse) when the world is not watching?

why do they keep leaving the door open for him?

philcski · #**264** 05-03-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

You actually went through all the tickets?

No. I'm not that dedicated.

He wrote me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

how did you do overall?

I bet $150 total all day. Return of $0. Compare that to over $5k handle on track at Derby Day last year. Actually just started a thread about the day's economics. How did you do overall? Make any money on the early races?

MaTH716 · #**265** 05-03-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

why do they keep leaving the door open for him?

I'm not sure what goes through the mind of a jockey. Whether they are on the look out/are aware where certain horses are in the field. But I could confidently say that no one was worried where Calvin Borel and his horse with a career best 81 Beyer was lurking.

Travis Stone · #**266** 05-03-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

It's amazing that in 19 & 20 horse fields that he has been able to stay away from trouble and take advantage of ground saving rail skimming trips.
I forgot who said it, but obviously he has gotten through on the biggest of stages. How many times does he not get through (maybe when he does have the best horse) when the world is not watching?

Fair points, and I'm sure one of these days he'll get stopped. But I don't mind the gamble... that's part of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

why do they keep leaving the door open for him?

I don't think anyone was scared of Borel sneaking-up the rail on Mine That Bird.

dalakhani · #**267** 05-03-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

No. I'm not that dedicated.

He wrote me.

I bet $150 total all day. Return of $0. Compare that to over $5k handle on track at Derby Day last year. Actually just started a thread about the day's economics. How did you do overall? Make any money on the early races?

Not good, but did have tizaqueena. I kept having the right idea but wrong horse. I bet against kodiak cowboy (didnt seem to like offgoing according to form) but took my pal charlie as opposed to accreditted. Loved Papa clem and didnt have a clue about mine that bird.

Overall, losing day that could have been highly successful. its tough going in to the derby 12 deep with a pick 4 and not coming away a winner.

docicu3 · #**268** 05-03-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

why do they keep leaving the door open for him?

Actually he rode more of a weave til the last 1/16th......started on the rail came around a few horses than back to the rail when no body else was running. He had it measured perfectly.....again!!

#**269** 05-03-2009, 09:23 PM

Bobby Fischer · #**270** 05-03-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Do you guys think that Borel would have ridden that horse the same way if the trainer were, say, John Ward and the horse were 15-1 instead of 50-1? I dont mean the rail part. I mean the part where he took the horse 30 lengths back which was against instruction.

Good question. I think the deep set up was a very imporant part, because a lot of the decent horses were asked early because the thought by most was that speed would carry. Guys like Serling and Fat Man who preach race set ups should be all over the huge advantage Mine That Bird got from his positioning by Borel.

I don't know if John Ward in particular would have mattered, but maybe a trainer or owner who he depends upon stakes mounts from. Who knows?

It was obviously Borel's choice and not Mine That Bird's to hold so deep early, it is a move Borel has patented especially at Churchill Downs.

#**271** 05-03-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Hey.
I was seriously worried for me lad.
He got a massive club to the head.

They better watch him for a few weeks.
That was a massive beat down.

CSC · #**272** 05-03-2009, 09:37 PM

I haven't had the time to read all 300+ posts in this thread, I may have missed one or two...the rail was a good spot, obvious enough. Has anyone mentioned the winning margin was 6 3/4 lengths. Let's just say 7 lengths. So if Mine The bird doesn't get the rail trip, he still wins by 2 anyway fair and square, maybe this horse should get more credit than what he has gotten thus far. But the margin of victory may have clouded some by dismissing this as a throwout race.

Port Conway Lane · #**273** 05-03-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

I haven't had the time to read all 300+ posts in this thread, I may have missed one or two...the rail was a good spot, obvious enough. Has anyone mentioned the winning margin was 6 3/4 lengths. Let's just say 7 lengths. So if Mine The bird doesn't get the rail trip, he still wins by 2 anyway fair and square, maybe this horse should get more credit than what he has gotten thus far. But the margin of victory may have clouded some by dismissing this as a throwout race.

You can check up to 190 to see if this has been covered,after that I am pretty sure it hasn't.

#**274** 05-03-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

And yes I do get what other meaning this might have.
If you are that clever... And you realize who was
actually floored and exposed.

I wonder if anyone has actually knocked themselves
out with their own fist.

Danzig · #**275** 05-03-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

you need to stay out of betting discussions. we all have out faults.

#**276** 05-03-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

And yes I do get what other meaning this might have.
If you are that clever... And you realize who was
actually floored and exposed.

I wonder if anyone has actually knocked themselves
out with their own fist.

You picked Hatton, moron. There is no other way around it.

docicu3 · #**277** 05-03-2009, 09:55 PM

If you want to read some REALLY interesting stuff you should take a gander at TGH's post derby explanations...."Ask The Experts".

TGJB or Jerry...."On Friday CD had a meeting with all of the trainers to go over the change in testing from the previous year as the lab for 2008 did not do blood testing for Bute among a number of other's. One trainer in the room got very agitated and started to ask a lot of questions....

....he says further......"maybe the result this year is more about an ABSENCE of medication this year as much as it is underperformance." or close to that.

You don't have to be Perry Mason or Columbo or Kojak or ...fill in ancient detective series of your choice, to figure out whom Mr Brown would like to see brought to justice more than any other trainer. You don't suppose JM would scratch a horse because he was fearful of another medication violation do you........nahhh!! I'm sure someone besides the connections and personal hired hand vet saw IWR in pain and fluctuant in the ankle right!!!......Of course he would never do that!!

The thread is from today and about MTB..

Danzig · #**278** 05-03-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3

If you want to read some REALLY interesting stuff you should take a gander at TGH's post derby explanations...."Ask The Experts".

TGJB or Jerry...."On Friday CD had a meeting with all of the trainers to go over the change in testing from the previous year as the lab for 2008 did not do blood testing for Bute among a number of other's. One trainer in the room got very agitated and started to ask a lot of questions....

....he says further......"maybe the result this year is more about an ABSENCE of medication this year as much as it is underperformance." or close to that.

You don't have to be Perry Mason or Columbo or Kojak or ...fill in ancient detective series of your choice, to figure out whom Mr Brown would like to see brought to justice more than any other trainer. You don't suppose JM would scratch a horse because he was fearful of another medication violation do you........nahhh!! I'm sure someone besides the connections and personal hired hand vet saw IWR in pain and fluctuant in the ankle right!!!......Of course he would never do that!!

The thread is from today and about MTB..

hmmm hmmm

interesting post.

docicu3 · #**279** 05-03-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

hmmm hmmm

interesting post.

If any fraction of this is true it shows once again what a disadvantage the player is at......there's no way to prove that JM scratched because of this but what a story.

Riot · #**280** 05-03-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3

You don't suppose JM would scratch a horse because he was fearful of another medication violation do you........nahhh!! I'm sure someone besides the connections and personal hired hand vet saw IWR in pain and fluctuant in the ankle right!!!......Of course he would never do that!!

The thread is from today and about MTB..

I thought the horse was scratched by the state vet. He trotted sound, but was grade one lame on the left front ankle flexion test.

Regarding the blood testing, this year Churchill said they were supertesting (not doing just their normal tests) and freezing blood for future reference, too.

Edit: changing the medication rules via surprise on the trainers Friday morning could readily piss someone off, just for that fact alone.