Circular Quay

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

My bad, I did not realize you were repeating what Stevens said, I apologize for that...

Actually, I don't even think Stevens said it...it was the host or co-host...Who is the guy that has the Vegas horse racing show...Shiraca, or something?

BTW, not everybody has to agree with my analysis or even like it the least bit....that is why there are several of us.....CDI pays me for it so as long as they believe their customers enjoy it then that is all that really matters. I'm sorry you feel as though I am subpar - although you don't even know me and we have never had a candid conversation...that is like saying that Orman is a no count with out me even knowing the guy, and I wouldn't ever state something like that....[/quote]
Thats very fair and true. But I think the folks listening to your analysis before the Quay race where you selected Alex may have been done a disservice. ANyone who saw Quay's debut knew he was the goods.

[Pointg5]

My comments were based on what I thought you said, which turned out to be what the host or Stevens said, I was wrong, I admit it...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Thats very fair and true. But I think the folks listening to your analysis before the Quay race where you selected Alex may have been done a disservice. ANyone who saw Quay's debut knew he was the goods.

I'm confused, and with the screwed up quotes I am not certain who said what, but are you implying because Joel picked a loser he did someone a disservice?

That would be incredible if you really said that unless, of course, you have never given anyone a loser.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm confused, and with the screwed up quotes I am not certain who said what, but are you implying because Joel picked a loser he did someone a disservice?

That would be incredible if you really said that unless, of course, you have never given anyone a loser.

I was busting his balls, look at the topic of the thread, its a little ironic. Ah, my humor isn't gotten by everyone.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

My bad, I did not realize you were repeating what Stevens said, I apologize for that...

Actually, I don't even think Stevens said it...it was the host or co-host...Who is the guy that has the Vegas horse racing show...Shiraca, or something?

BTW, not everybody has to agree with my analysis or even like it the least bit....that is why there are several of us.....CDI pays me for it so as long as they believe their customers enjoy it then that is all that really matters. I'm sorry you feel as though I am subpar - although you don't even know me and we have never had a candid conversation...that is like saying that Orman is a no count with out me even knowing the guy, and I wouldn't ever state something like that....[/quote]

CDI better hope like hell they never need you to interview Jason Orman. What would your first question be, "Jason, I called you a clown, what do you think about that?"

Assistant Publicity Director, Website Racing Information Manager, now part-time whatever for Churchill. You certainly don't come off as influential as you say. You ought to know better.

Never said Quay couldn't win, I simply said that he has a router's pedigree and did not have to win the Bashford Manor - a 6 furlong event - from the far outside post at low odds....that is all I said....Additionally, I still think that Run Alex Run could turn the tables on Circular Quay if they SPRINT against each other again and I still believe that....Circular Quay got a beautiful set up with the heated early pace pressure with many top contenders battling it out, whilw Alex was hung wide and I think McKee made a mistake by letting him fall well off the pace after contesting the first quarter and not even saving ground in the process...the damage was done..he contested th efirst quarter so why not hold your position?...Why lose ground and try to rerally with a 2yo after taking him back? I think McKee put the horse through too much and I still believe that he will prove out to be the best SPRINTER out of that field when it is all said and done....

...Circular Quay will go a lot further, but the Bashford Manor was a sprint event, so I thought he could be vulnerable...thats all...he got a great set up and RAR did not and I believe that may have been the differnce (on top of the fact that Fires isn't going to consistently get good efforts out of any horse, lets face it)...Pletcher vs. Fires..I'll take Pletcher, but that doesn't mean that RAR isn't as good of a horse as Circular Quay....time will tell

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I was busting his balls, look at the topic of the thread, its a little ironic. Ah, my humor isn't gotten by everyone.

It's not easy being misunderstood.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Never said Quay couldn't win, I simply said that he has a router's pedigree and did not have to win the Bashford Manor - a 6 furlong event - from the far outside post at low odds....that is all I said....Additionally, I still think that Run Alex Run could turn the tables on Circular Quay if they SPRINT against each other again and I still believe that....Circular Quay got a beautiful set up with the heated early pace pressure with many top contenders battling it out, whilw Alex was hung wide and I think McKee made a mistake by letting him fall well off the pace after contesting the first quarter and not even saving ground in the process...the damage was done..he contested th efirst quarter so why not hold your position?...Why lose ground and try to rerally with a 2yo after taking him back? I think McKee put the horse through too much and I still believe that he will prove out to be the best SPRINTER out of that field when it is all said and done....

...Circular Quay will go a lot further, but the Bashford Manor was a sprint event, so I thought he could be vulnerable...thats all...he got a great set up and RAR did not and I believe that may have been the differnce (on top of the fact that Fires isn't going to consistently get good efforts out of any horse, lets face it)...Pletcher vs. Fires..I'll take Pletcher, but that doesn't mean that RAR isn't as good of a horse as Circular Quay....time will tell

Joel I was busting your balls, I realize that Alex was the only logical alternative.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

CDI better hope like hell they never need you to interview Jason Orman. What would your first question be, "Jason, I called you a clown, what do you think about that?"

Haven't been in the interviewing game for a while, man, so I doubt I will ever interview any trainer....Also, read the threads before you make naive comments...I NEVER said that Orman was a clown...you are clearly the clown...you take any reason to bash me and act like you know me...Who are you, big shot? What is your name and what do you do?....I bet you are just a sour degenerate....get a life!

How about you be a man and reveal your name?

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Haven't been in the interviewing game for a while, man, so I doubt I will ever interview any trainer....Also, read the threads before you make naive comments...I NEVER said that Orman was a clown...you are clearly the clown...you take any reason to bash me and act like you know me...Who are you, big shot? What is your name and what do you do?....I bet you are just a sour degenerate....get a life!

How about you be a man and reveal your name?

And herein lies the problem. Joel hes a very sharp guy, and whos he by or what he does for work is really not an issue in relation to his knowledge of the game. You don't have to work for a track or a trainer or a newspaper to posess a hell of a lot of knowledge about this game. You also don't have to have been raised around them. Some people have a very fast learning curve, in many things.
YOu may want to realize that as much as you may know, there are people who know more, or as much. And there are many facets of the game. Analyzing races once they are done is an important skill, but it isn't necessarily related to predicting outcomes, a skill in this game that is decidedly more valued. So far, your after race analysis has been good, but your predictions have been few and less so. To really impress people you have to put it out there BEFORE the race, not after.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

With all due respect Oracle, Mandellas game isn't really 3 year olds. He doesn't like to rush his horses, and lets them tell him when they are ready to run. He is however, third all time in Breeders Cup victories, and a Hall of Famer. He has done just about everything in this game, and I think his record speaks for itself. Orman did get a raw deal, but I'd say Mandella's record is hard to fault.

Mandella is an awesome trainer, no doubt, I didn't say he wasn't. But three year olds are OBVIOUSLY not his game at all!! And a few posters here who basically said THATS RIGHT! about the trainer switch need to realize that based on mandella's prior record with tri crown horses and three year olds in general that teh chances that he would have bettered Orman's job of one 2nd place finish are poor!!!

Originally Posted by oracle80

And herein lies the problem. Joel hes a very sharp guy, and whos he by or what he does for work is really not an issue in relation to his knowledge of the game. You don't have to work for a track or a trainer or a newspaper to posess a hell of a lot of knowledge about this game. You also don't have to have been raised around them. Some people have a very fast learning curve, in many things.
YOu may want to realize that as much as you may know, there are people who know more, or as much. And there are many facets of the game. Analyzing races once they are done is an important skill, but it isn't necessarily related to predicting outcomes, a skill in this game that is decidedly more valued. So far, your after race analysis has been good, but your predictions have been few and less so. To really impress people you have to put it out there BEFORE the race, not after.

That's funny, I get PMs all the time when about my pre-race analysis, especially on 2YO races at CD....to say that I don't pick out horses before the race is like saying that evey horse that you bought has been as successful as Wonder Lady Anne L, which would just be wrong and a total lie....I DO NOT offer a lot of STEAM and HARD analysis on this forum...Gus and KaSept do a lot more of that than I do...I prefer to give analysis on 2YOs becuaes that is a group of unknowns and I get to watch them all breeze at CD, so I can provide some value information that you CANNOT get anywhere else....ask anybody who follows my 2YO analysis and they will tell you that I'm very informed there.....I don't offer normal handicapping because ANYBODY can view pps on the 3rd at Aqueduct and give an opinion....they are a dime a dozen.....if you listen to my analysis advancing stakes on Friday on ATRAB, I usually give an overview of the race and how I think it will play out, but I rarely make a SELECTION because I give my imput and let people implement my overviews into there handicapping style and MAKE THEIR OWN OPINIONS on the race....you cannot develop horse players by TELLING them who to bet...you have to tell them why you think a race will unfold a certain way and then let them factor that in and pick a horse for themselves - that is TRUE analysis IMO and the greatest service you can provide people in this industry...Hell, I know I like to listen to people's view on races and how they will play out, BUT I do not listen to people's selections and most people shouldn't..

Example: I have already stated that I thought that Seaside Retreat would provide great value this weekend at 5-1+, but if I were handicapping the race I can see that KD is LONE speed and will be tough to catch as the favorite (he will be the fave, not Steppenwolfer IMO)....the race sets up for KD wiring the field...that is handicapping, but I will not PICK KD on Friday on the radio...I will state that I believe that Seadside Retreat should run big and appears to be teh best new shooter, but that KD will get the best set up and will be the horse to catch and beat.....I won't say "PLay a SR / KD exacta box for 50 units"....I don't do that stuff....

If you know anything about racing you can tell which way I'm leaning most of the time, but I'm a board player...I play value ad I pick my spots, and the only wagers I usually play are 3-horse EX boxes (when value is created), Pick 3s and 4s, and WP wagers with the PLACE always being twice of what I bet to WIN.....

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Haven't been in the interviewing game for a while, man, so I doubt I will ever interview any trainer....Also, read the threads before you make naive comments...I NEVER said that Orman was a clown...you are clearly the clown...you take any reason to bash me and act like you know me...Who are you, big shot? What is your name and what do you do?....I bet you are just a sour degenerate....get a life!

How about you be a man and reveal your name?

My name is Bruce. I'll pm you the rest if you want. Just ask. I'm not hard to find.

I have a modest, but successful employee benefits consulting practice. I left a management position 3 years ago during a corporate shake-up when it was clear they wanted new blood and frankly offered me too much money to stay.

I am not a big shot.

While putting myself through school, I worked as a cab driver, laborer, made manifolds for Ford Thunderbirds and did anything else I needed to. My first job was shining shoes in front of the GM building in downtown Detroit when I was six. As a teenager, I hustled a lot of scrap.

I have hired and fired over 100 people but driving a cab and working in the benefits/insurance business gave me the ability to recognize bulls hit when I see it. And you fit the bill.

Aside from "not losing too much of (your) fathers money (your words)" I don't see how you possess any significant "influence (again, your word)." Doing part-time work for a racetrack does not make you influential.

Your opinion of me as maive, a clown and a degenerate is fine for you to have.

Just as mine of you as a full of ****, self-proclaimed influencer of the horse business while two years removed from making sure there was paper in the Fair Grounds press room fax machine is fine as well.

The difference between you and me is I do not proclaim to be of any greater "influence" or import than is reasonable for anyone with more than **** for brains to believe. I also do not look to start arguments but seem to have the propensity to carry on when I think it's right to do so.

Any more questions?

[Pointg5]

[quote=SentToStud] My first job was shining shoes in front of the GM building in downtown Detroit when I was six. As a teenager, I hustled a lot of scrap.QUOTE]


That's funny, my dad did those same two jobs as a young kid and a teenager to make money for his trips to River Downs...

[Gander]

making sure there was paper in the Fair Grounds press room fax machine

LOL! Can I get that job? I think I am fairly qualified. What a great thread this is.

[SentToStud]

[quote=Pointg5]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

My first job was shining shoes in front of the GM building in downtown Detroit when I was six. As a teenager, I hustled a lot of scrap.QUOTE]


That's funny, my dad did those same two jobs as a young kid and a teenager to make money for his trips to River Downs...

tell your dad to stay off my corner. lol.

My first job was cutting grass for neighbors. I had 20 yards that I cut once a week and I chagred $10 a yard. I was making $200 a week. I also had 6 house thay I charged a flat yearly fee of $500 to cut grass, rake leaves, shovel snow etc etc. I remember this like yesterday. I made $11,000 a year. My 1st job out of college was for $18k per year--lol.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

My name is Bruce. I'll pm you the rest if you want. Just ask. I'm not hard to find.

I have a modest, but successful employee benefits consulting practice. I left a management position 3 years ago during a corporate shake-up when it was clear they wanted new blood and frankly offered me too much money to stay.

I am not a big shot.

While putting myself through school, I worked as a cab driver, laborer, made manifolds for Ford Thunderbirds and did anything else I needed to. My first job was shining shoes in front of the GM building in downtown Detroit when I was six. As a teenager, I hustled a lot of scrap.

I have hired and fired over 100 people but driving a cab and working in the benefits/insurance business gave me the ability to recognize bulls hit when I see it. And you fit the bill.

Aside from "not losing too much of (your) fathers money (your words)" I don't see how you possess any significant "influence (again, your word)." Doing part-time work for a racetrack does not make you influential.

Your opinion of me as maive, a clown and a degenerate is fine for you to have.

Just as mine of you as a full of ****, self-proclaimed influencer of the horse business while two years removed from making sure there was paper in the Fair Grounds press room fax machine is fine as well.

The difference between you and me is I do not proclaim to be of any greater "influence" or import than is reasonable for anyone with more than **** for brains to believe. I also do not look to start arguments but seem to have the propensity to carry on when I think it's right to do so.

Any more questions?

<< I also do not look to start arguments but seem to have the propensity to carry on when I think it's right to do so. >>

....WHAT????, then what do you consider you are doing when you involve persoanls and always jump to conclusion on things and make PERSONAL judgements against me???

I DEBATE things, which is what is doen on chat boards...that is why they exist...you, on the other hand, are the ARGUER - which is a person who doesn't debate with his response but rather has a negative intention behind it, usually involving personals and nothing relavent to the actual topic at hand....

And for the record cabbie, I do consulting work and seasonal projects for CDI - a corporation that owns several racetracks -- NOT "a racetrack" ....but I am glad you think that I am a coffee maker in a press box....I get humor out of how out of touch with the industry you really are....

I'm done with the negativity and this is the last I'm writing about this....I can'
t consistently waste my time justifying things to people like you...it is counterproductive....think what you want and keep betting the races...that is all I care about...keep feeding the tote machines..

Have a nice day.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

This horse isn't even the best 2yr old in their barn. Scat Daddy is considered the better of the two.

Just for the record, Nostramdamus is a moron, a complete moron. Nice call coward(s).

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

You need to take a class in logic. Who cares when any horse started racing? The point is that 2yr olds change overnight. These horses aren't even close to grown and what they do now is zero indication of what they will be like in a month from now, let alone a year from now. 2yr old horses can improve or regress in a matter of weeks. The fact is most 2yr olds are still unraced so to say that "as long as this horse is in training there won't be a two year old who will touch him" is RIDICULOUS.

For the record Hoisttheflag is a complete moron.