JAZIL....Most Overrated horse in the history of horse racing.... - Page 10

Danzig · #**181** 02-09-2007, 09:27 AM

tremendous props to shadwell for returning jazil and invasor to the track-they could easily have retired them both.

funny isn't it, we talk of what could have been with bernardini and his ilk, while many down the ones that are still out there putting it all on the line.

ArlJim78 · #**182** 02-09-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

tremendous props to shadwell for returning jazil and invasor to the track-they could easily have retired them both.

funny isn't it, we talk of what could have been with bernardini and his ilk, while many down the ones that are still out there putting it all on the line.

Exactly. I for one appreciate seeing horses like Jazil running. Every horse does not have to be a front runner or a win machine to make racing interesting. Jazil has a certain style of running, maybe not the fastest one around and certainly one that might need a good pace set-up to win. So what? You can't just blindly single him, but its hard to totally rule him out in certain cases either.

Maybe the public has been over-rating his chances of winning, but there is no need to knock the horse for that. He is what he is.

paisjpq · #**183** 02-09-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

tremendous props to shadwell for returning jazil and invasor to the track-they could easily have retired them both.

funny isn't it, we talk of what could have been with bernardini and his ilk, while many down the ones that are still out there putting it all on the line.

also evidence that perhaps one brother is more 'sporting' than the other?

Sightseek · #**184** 02-09-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

also evidence that perhaps one brother is more 'sporting' than the other?

Indeed it is!
I couldn't help but be PO'ed when I saw pics of Bernie running in the snow...he should be doing that on the track.

Cajungator26 · #**185** 02-09-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Indeed it is!
I couldn't help but be PO'ed when I saw pics of Bernie running in the snow...he should be doing that on the track.

Where did you see those? I'd love to see them.

Sightseek · #**186** 02-09-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Where did you see those? I'd love to see them.

http://www.horsephotos.com/searchresults.jsp

On their homepage they have a photo of Circular Quay...he isn't the most attractive horse out there.

Dunbar · #**187** 02-09-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Corinthian has always been a headcase and you never really know what you're going to get come raceday. Not the kind of horse I want at 2/1.

This is inconsistent with saying that the 4/5 on Jazil was so awful. (I bet nothing on the race, so there's no rationalizing going on here.)

If you don't think Corinthian is worth a bet at 2-1, then that suggests you think he has less than a 33% chance to win the race. So, who would you give the remaining 67+% chance to win? A good chunk of that HAS to be Jazil's against that weak field.

--Dunbar

Cajungator26 · #**188** 02-09-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

http://www.horsephotos.com/searchresults.jsp

On their homepage they have a photo of Circular Quay...he isn't the most attractive horse out there.

Thanks! He looks gorgeous... and so happy!

Sightseek · #**189** 02-09-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Thanks! He looks gorgeous... and so happy!

He would have been happier running down the track at Saratoga this summer.

Cajungator26 · #**190** 02-09-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

He would have been happier running down the track at Saratoga this summer.

Something tells me that he wouldn't agree... but I know we'd all be happier if he was!

Cajungator26 · #**191** 02-09-2007, 10:14 AM

Bernie looks a lot like Slew! Funny how different they look when they're out of their "element" out in the paddock.

Pedigree Ann · #**192** 02-09-2007, 10:37 AM

After Corinthian was allowed to get the first half-mile in 47 3/5, which is a mild workout for a horse of his caliber, it's no surprise that he could sprint home in 1:00 2/5, which he could do standing on his head. Jazil's premature move was a result of the slow early pace and the jock not wanting to get stuck 10 lengths behind a 48 half. The race was the wrong shape for a closer like Jazil.

The question on Corinthian is what happens when he goes up against Barcola or some other speed freak (22.83 first quarter in the Donn). Will he run with them and still win by many, will he rate, or will he burn out?

SentToStud · #**193** 02-09-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar

This is inconsistent with saying that the 4/5 on Jazil was so awful. (I bet nothing on the race, so there's no rationalizing going on here.)

If you don't think Corinthian is worth a bet at 2-1, then that suggests you think he has less than a 33% chance to win the race. So, who would you give the remaining 67+% chance to win? A good chunk of that HAS to be Jazil's against that weak field.

--Dunbar

Couple things...

I was at the race and did not bet it, so no rationalizing here, either.

You leave out the effect of takeout. To me that means it's often the case that there's no horse in any single race worth betting if the actual odds do not exceed your own handicapped line for every horse in that given race to the extent you require to make a wager.

When I looked at this race, I was close in my estimation of what the horses would go off at. I figured JAzil would go off at 4/5, Corinthian at 5/2 and King of Jazz at 7/2. The others I was close on. I would have bet Jazil at 3/2, Corinthian at 7/2 or KoJ at 9/2. None of these were at those numbers.

Total "acceptable" odds for these three horses alone add up to about 1.15-1, so I knew going in it was a race I would not be very likely to bet.

Most races look this way to me. You?

Cannon Shell · #**194** 02-09-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

After Corinthian was allowed to get the first half-mile in 47 3/5, which is a mild workout for a horse of his caliber, it's no surprise that he could sprint home in 1:00 2/5, which he could do standing on his head. Jazil's premature move was a result of the slow early pace and the jock not wanting to get stuck 10 lengths behind a 48 half. The race was the wrong shape for a closer like Jazil.

The question on Corinthian is what happens when he goes up against Barcola or some other speed freak (22.83 first quarter in the Donn). Will he run with them and still win by many, will he rate, or will he burn out?

Corinthian is not a need the lead type and if some one dimensional horse like Barcola set rapid pace, it will fit well with Corinthians style. Jazil is a 2nd rate handicap horse who will rarely find a race with enough distance or pace to suit him. He needs something like the American version of the St. Ledger which does not nor ever will exist. Plenty of mediocre horses have won classics and he is one of them.

Gander · #**195** 02-09-2007, 12:22 PM

Well said Canon Shell and I doubt you'll take the bashing like Point Given 1985 did when he posted his thoughts about the 2 horses.

Corinthian is a versatile sort who can adapt to any race scenario. He doesnt rely on pace. He wins when he is the best, plain and simple. No excuses.

Excuses are like 100K cars in Miami...everybotty got em.

Cannon Shell · #**196** 02-09-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

After Corinthian was allowed to get the first half-mile in 47 3/5, which is a mild workout for a horse of his caliber, it's no surprise that he could sprint home in 1:00 2/5, which he could do standing on his head. Jazil's premature move was a result of the slow early pace and the jock not wanting to get stuck 10 lengths behind a 48 half. The race was the wrong shape for a closer like Jazil.

The question on Corinthian is what happens when he goes up against Barcola or some other speed freak (22.83 first quarter in the Donn). Will he run with them and still win by many, will he rate, or will he burn out?

What did you think of Coin Silver standing stud in Ireland? Seems like a strange fit.

Cajungator26 · #**197** 02-09-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Well said Canon Shell and I doubt you'll take the bashing like Point Given 1985 did when he posted his thoughts about the 2 horses.

Cannon didn't devote an entire thread to Jazil proclaiming him to be the most overrated horse in the history of horse racing, Gander.

slotdirt · #**198** 02-09-2007, 12:25 PM

Gander, what Cannon Shell said and how he said it was decidedly different than how this pointgiven character said what he had to say. When you call out the world on a horse like Jazil, you're going to take some grief for it. When you start several different threads proclaiming a horse won't finish in the exacta for a particular race, people are going to call you out on it when said horse comes in for the place. These are two entirely different types of posters.

Cannon Shell · #**199** 02-09-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Cannon didn't devote an entire thread to Jazil proclaiming him to be the most overrated horse in the history of horse racing, Gander.

I dont think he is overrated, just ordinary. Funny thing about the Triple Crown is that everybody calls for all these changes but rarely is anything said about the Belmont. It really does not fit into the modern racing scene (good or bad) and without a triple crown on the line is really a mediocre event. I'm not suggesting a change but I am suprised that others haven't.

Gander · #**200** 02-09-2007, 12:31 PM

These are two entirely different types of posters.

They sure are. One is a scuccessful horse trainer and the other is a 21 year old college kid with a gambling vice.