Top 5 Derby horses at this point - Page 10

Withers · #**181** 03-20-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Not to pile on, but this is about as confused and incorrect opinion as I've read, and considering some of the nonsense in this thread that's saying quite a lot.

What, pray tell, should the industry emphasize on THAT PROVIDES THE MONEY THAT SUPPORTS THE GAME?

Sorry to exercise right of response so late, but really, there are LOADS of sports that operate without betting revenues. What exactly makes horseracing so different? Other sports manage to fund multimillion dollar stadiums. Why? Because of their massive fan base and appeal and the fact that people watch the sport and exert so much pressure on local governments that they put themselves in debt to keep local constituencies happy. Nothing wrong with betting revenues, and yes, they currently support the sport. I'm just suggesting that horseracing, by making betting king, is equating itself to slots...and there's no sport in slots, however much money it generates. People need heroes and human interest stories. When more than 100,000 show up in the pouring rain to watch Funny Cide as they did, it wasn't betting that brought them out, and their support does help the sport. If TV ratings are not important, why does DRF report on them after every single Derby/Preakness/Belmont? Why is Superbowl advertising so important? But don't worry, I'm sure you all are right that betting is all that matters to horseracing's future success. Big handles, big purses, and no TV audience and everything is great...the sport is in full freefall, but of course the current model is working...

Antitrust32 · #**182** 03-20-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withers

Sorry to exercise right of response so late, but really, there are LOADS of sports that operate without betting revenues. What exactly makes horseracing so different? Other sports manage to fund multimillion dollar stadiums. Why? Because of their massive fan base and appeal and the fact that people watch the sport and exert so much pressure on local governments that they put themselves in debt to keep local constituencies happy. Nothing wrong with betting revenues, and yes, they currently support the sport. I'm just suggesting that horseracing, by making betting king, is equating itself to slots...and there's no sport in slots, however much money it generates. People need heroes and human interest stories. When more than 100,000 show up in the pouring rain to watch Funny Cide as they did, it wasn't betting that brought them out, and their support does help the sport. If TV ratings are not important, why does DRF report on them after every single Derby/Preakness/Belmont? Why is Superbowl advertising so important? But don't worry, I'm sure you all are right that betting is all that matters to horseracing's future success. Big handles, big purses, and no TV audience and everything is great...the sport is in full freefall, but of course the current model is working...

The day i walk into the sports authority and see as many horsey jerseys as football jerseys will be the day blackthroatedwind sees spooky mulder in the HOF.

i can hear it now "Our top selling jersey this year is Stormello - not Carmello"

blackthroatedwind · #**183** 03-20-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withers

Sorry to exercise right of response so late, but really, there are LOADS of sports that operate without betting revenues. What exactly makes horseracing so different? Other sports manage to fund multimillion dollar stadiums. Why? Because of their massive fan base and appeal and the fact that people watch the sport and exert so much pressure on local governments that they put themselves in debt to keep local constituencies happy. Nothing wrong with betting revenues, and yes, they currently support the sport. I'm just suggesting that horseracing, by making betting king, is equating itself to slots...and there's no sport in slots, however much money it generates. People need heroes and human interest stories. When more than 100,000 show up in the pouring rain to watch Funny Cide as they did, it wasn't betting that brought them out, and their support does help the sport. If TV ratings are not important, why does DRF report on them after every single Derby/Preakness/Belmont? Why is Superbowl advertising so important? But don't worry, I'm sure you all are right that betting is all that matters to horseracing's future success. Big handles, big purses, and no TV audience and everything is great...the sport is in full freefall, but of course the current model is working...

You are very confused about what makes horseracing work as a day to day business.

Major league sports have substantial broadcasting revenues that racing can never have.

Major league sports derive substantial revenue from ticket sales that racing can never have save a few days a year.

Racing is funded almost solely by takeout from wagering, though now slot money has also been added to the mix, and if you think that racetracks that run even mildly significant meets can survive without gambling you are mistaken. Completely mistaken.

What racetracks need to do is find a better way to educate their fans about wagering. Any fan that does better, or in most cases less poorly, will be inclined to bet more and enjoy him or herself more. This is how they can improve their business ( and, no, I am not suggesting this is easy....but having know-nothing talking heads on between races sure isn't helping ). If someone wants to pay the general admission and walk the grounds, not bet, and enjoy their day that is their prerogative, but make no mistake....they are doing VERY little to help the game.

Withers · #**184** 03-20-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The day i walk into the sports authority and see as many horsey jerseys as football jerseys will be the day blackthroatedwind sees spooky mulder in the HOF.

i can hear it now "Our top selling jersey this year is Stormello - not Carmello"

Tee-hee-hee

#**185** 03-20-2007, 05:38 PM

"Lets go Street Sense!! *clap clap- clap clap clap* Let's go Street Sense!"

"Booooo!! Hey Pletcher wake up ******* you just won the Derby! Someone check for a pulse!!! You suck!!"

"We will, we will cash tickets!! *clap clap clap- clap clap clap* We will, we will....cash tickets!! *air guitar solo*"

Withers · #**186** 03-20-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You are very confused about what makes horseracing work as a day to day business.

Major league sports have substantial broadcasting revenues that racing can never have.

Major league sports derive substantial revenue from ticket sales that racing can never have save a few days a year.

Racing is funded almost solely by takeout from wagering, though now slot money has also been added to the mix, and if you think that racetracks that run even mildly significant meets can survive without gambling you are mistaken. Completely mistaken.

What racetracks need to do is find a better way to educate their fans about wagering. Any fan that does better, or in most cases less poorly, will be inclined to bet more and enjoy him or herself more. This is how they can improve their business ( and, no, I am not suggesting this is easy....but having know-nothing talking heads on between races sure isn't helping ). If someone wants to pay the general admission and walk the grounds, not bet, and enjoy their day that is their prerogative, but make no mistake....they are doing VERY little to help the game.

I repeat: no one is proposing banning gambling at the tracks. I am not arguing that we should be discouraging gambling (for heaven's sake).

Yes, gambling is extremely important in order to maintain horseracing in its current state. I'm just very doubtful that your emphasis on gambling can safeguard its future. If you feel that horseracing has reached its maximum potential for popularity, ticket sales, and broadcasting in the 21st century, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it...but I disagree.

blackthroatedwind · #**187** 03-20-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withers

I repeat: no one is proposing banning gambling at the tracks. I am not arguing that we should be discouraging gambling (for heaven's sake).

Yes, gambling is extremely important in order to maintain horseracing in its current state. I'm just very doubtful that your emphasis on gambling can safeguard its future. If you feel that horseracing has reached its maximum potential for popularity, ticket sales, and broadcasting in the 21st century, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it...but I disagree.

Enlighten me....tell me exactly how racing is going to fund itself in addition to betting revenue and slot revenue. I would love to hear your ideas....seriously.

#**188** 03-20-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withers

I repeat: no one is proposing banning gambling at the tracks. I am not arguing that we should be discouraging gambling (for heaven's sake).

Yes, gambling is extremely important in order to maintain horseracing in its current state. I'm just very doubtful that your emphasis on gambling can safeguard its future. If you feel that horseracing has reached its maximum potential for popularity, ticket sales, and broadcasting in the 21st century, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it...but I disagree.

Well I see where you're coming from on the promoting aspect of the sport. I, for one, have always thought an entertainer like Ludacris would be great to have in a scenario like the derby post parade. Have Luda rap about the horses and their connections instead of the track announcer. Also he can put in a few plugs for Pepsi and other corporate sponsors like Smith & Wesson and Proactiv.

Having someone like Luda promoting the sport would give the game the mass appeal it desperately needs. Maybe have Green Day perform during the presentation ceremony.

blackthroatedwind · #**189** 03-20-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Well I see where you're coming from on the promoting aspect of the sport. I, for one, have always thought an entertainer like Ludacris would be great to have in a scenario like the derby post parade. Have Luda rap about the horses and their connections instead of the track announcer. Also he can put in a few plugs for Pepsi and other corporate sponsors like Smith & Wesson and Proactiv.

Having someone like Luda promoting the sport would give the game the mass appeal it desperately needs. Maybe have Green Day perform during the presentation ceremony.

I tell you what, having Emmanuelle Beart present the trophy at the 2005 Arc did quite a bit for me!

Cajungator26 · #**190** 03-20-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Well I see where you're coming from on the promoting aspect of the sport. I, for one, have always thought an entertainer like Ludacris would be great to have in a scenario like the derby post parade. Have Luda rap about the horses and their connections instead of the track announcer. Also he can put in a few plugs for Pepsi and other corporate sponsors like Smith & Wesson and Proactiv.

Having someone like Luda promoting the sport would give the game the mass appeal it desperately needs. Maybe have Green Day perform during the presentation ceremony.

LMFAO... I'd actually pay good money to see that.

pointman · #**191** 03-20-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withers

, there are LOADS of sports that operate without betting revenues. What exactly makes horseracing so different? Other sports manage to fund multimillion dollar stadiums. Why? Because of their massive fan base and appeal and the fact that people watch the sport and exert so much pressure on local governments that they put themselves in debt to keep local constituencies happy. ...

Unlike other sports, horseraces last 2 minutes. Also, half the people in the stadiums of the other sports you are talking about have money on one team or the other or the over, under, etc., most with illegal bookies. I can't imagine a model without wagering.

#**192** 03-20-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

LMFAO... I'd actually pay good money to see that.

ABC should hire Ken Rudolph just for the trophy presentation.

"Hey everybody look at me!! *pause*
Hey rich white people sit down!! Yeah!! I'm in a ban called Phat Mama! Hey man, good job on winnin this race, you rich guy. It's not like ya need the money huh? Amirite? Hey you know I bet Giacomo. I wish yo hose woulda been owned by a music producer or other entertainment industry type cause I woulda bet it. What's yo name again? Mo' ham ed? Yeah I wish there was some mo' ham here to, Ed. These rich white people bogahtin the hams. Well anyways, playa..congratulation. Can I hold a hundo? Thanks man."

Cajungator26 · #**193** 03-20-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits

Andy, darlin', a concrete, take to the window, sure bet, and don't forget that I shared this one with you.

When you see grinning green smileys with the words, Tee-Hee-Hee, before them, save your breath, save your energy, save your knowledge. Leave it all for someone that is WILLING to learn about the game.

This doesn't warrant your attention.

Hmm... not like this post warrants my attention, lol, but I think he/she was just laughing at Lori's post regarding jerseys. The chances of Stormello jerseys adorning the local Sports Authority are probably slim to none. HA!

#**194** 03-20-2007, 06:09 PM

Do what Grits says, or else.

Withers · #**195** 03-20-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Enlighten me....tell me exactly how racing is going to fund itself in addition to betting revenue and slot revenue. I would love to hear your ideas....seriously.

Seriously, my only point is this: in the end, since people can choose to bet on any sport they like these days, even if you are going to argue that betting is king, it still helps if you have a popular sport. And that ultimately means a greater number of people watching it. There's no way that "educating" people about betting on racing is going to solve anything. Educating what people? Who is suddenly going to get interested in wagering on horses when they don't find anything of interest in the races? Why should non-fans (but people who might like betting) somehow like betting on horseracing (when it's arguably more complicated and harder work) better than betting for their football/basketball team to win on Monday night, when that's a simple choice of team A versus team B and they actually enjoy watching the games, because they can talk to people the next day who have also watched the game?

Again, I am not overlooking the importance of wagering to the sport, far from it. I'm just saying that marketing horseracing means milking the KD and TC for all it is worth, because that's the only place where mass public awareness and interest in the sport resides. The fact that no horse has won it for so long -- that's a story, and that's what has brought people out to Belmont Park in droves for the last few years when the TC was on the line (and yes, happily they bet once they get there, even if they only know SJ or FC and haven't a clue about the rest of the field). And maybe the following year, they'll watch a few preps on ESPN too because they get interested in the 3yos and the next one that might do it, and that interest might even extend to the 2yos and some of the non-TC winners who actually stay running after the TC and in the BC. And maybe that helps keep horseracing on TV before it is forgotten all together. Maybe if more people watch there are ratings and advertising revenues at stake, and more corporate sponsorship, etc. I agree that those revenues are not going to replace betting revenue and slots, but it doesn't have to be one or the other: a wider following for racing would ultimately boost the sport's bottom line, and that irrespective of these new fans' interest in or lack of interest in wagering. Now, if they both watch the sport on TV and bet, that's even better...but please don't tell me that higher TV ratings are not an asset for a sport, or I was obviously not raised on the same planet.

Withers · #**196** 03-20-2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Hmm... not like this post warrants my attention, lol, but I think he/she was just laughing at Lori's post regarding jerseys. The chances of Stormello jerseys adorning the local Sports Authority are probably slim to none. HA!

Yes, I was laughing because I thought the idea of a Stormello jersey made it a very, very funny post, and I'm still chuckling at the thought...

Cajungator26 · #**197** 03-20-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withers

I was laughing because I thought the idea of a Stormello jersey made it a very, very funny post.

I found it comical as well.

If they had a Scat Daddy jersey, I'd be the first one in line to buy it.

#**198** 03-20-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I found it comical as well.

If they had a Scat Daddy jersey, I'd be the first one in line to buy it.

I'd buy the limited edition Japanese version.

Danzig · #**199** 03-20-2007, 06:22 PM

i just wanted to thank everyone for giving me something entertaining to read for a few minutes. lightened my mood for sure.
the pics were a real bonus!! some of you are outdoing yourselves these days.

carry on.

blackthroatedwind · #**200** 03-20-2007, 06:27 PM

After both not understanding my point about educating fans, and criticizing it, you offered some vague possibilities and events that do happen, and attempts that have been tried many times and failed, and did not offer a single idea of your own as to how racing is going to make money without gambling.

Once again, if you create fans, and then don't teach them in any way how to bet even mildly effectively, then they will not contribute to the health and survival of the game. I did not say that my ideas about fan education are even close to the be-all-and-end-all for racing, but I believe they are the correct direction racing needs to take, and is currently not doing so.

Unless you have an original thought about how racing can help itself, and not telling us about putting races on TV, which has been done and is done, then it seems pretty ridiculous that you continue to make the assertions you do. The truth is if you don't understand that racing will only survive, or strengthen itself, by creating fans that bet, then you really don't understand the dynamics of this industry.