8/25 (SAR): Travers, King's Bishop, Test (G1's), Ballston Spa (G3)

[-BT-]

Very admirable of team Peras International to enter Yara for the Test

think Contested gets softened up in the test, and don't even want to think about how many puns Durkin has with "TEST" and "CONTESTED" if she wins
*beatable

after looking at the entire card, i'm not sure if it's a good thing or bad thing that the only races that look "playable" are the stake races. Really tough card for tomorrow


-bt-

[FATPIANO]

Alpha is 2 for 2 at Saratoga, never worse than 2nd in NY. He should romp in this race, and then go for The JCGP..

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

ok, question. do people want a good betting race? yes. is this a good betting race? i think it is.
now, of course one wants the big races to draw the big names, but in the end, don't you want a good betting race? obviously the race is a victim of the war of attrition. exactly what could nyra have done to get a better group? i think criticism of nyra in this case is unwarranted. to complain is to suggest there could have been something done. how could they have produced a better field quality-wise?

The complaint is not with NYRA. As you said, they couldn't do more to get a better field. It's with the state of the sport in general. I have read a few people saying how it's a good betting race. That may be so but the fifth at Yavapai can also be a good betting race. Any race at any track on any day can be. When it's a race that's supposed to be of the highest quality, I don't think it's wrong to have a complaint when the quality is severely lacking. I feel like every time people make excuses for the continuing decline in quality, it will take that much longer to figure out what changes need to be made to start turning things around.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The complaint is not with NYRA. As you said, they couldn't do more to get a better field. It's with the state of the sport in general. I have read a few people saying how it's a good betting race. That may be so but the fifth at Yavapai can also be a good betting race. Any race at any track on any day can be. When it's a race that's supposed to be of the highest quality, I don't think it's wrong to have a complaint when the quality is severely lacking. I feel like every time people make excuses for the continuing decline in quality, it will take that much longer to figure out what changes need to be made to start turning things around.

i think for some, yes, it is a complaint with nyra.
yeah, everyone knows what changes need to be made. the trick is getting those who benefit from the current climate to make that change. after all, how long can breeders benefit if the sport suffers? if the sport declines far enough, the demand for horses will also drop. so, the cannibalization of top horses in order to breed would eventually lead to the end of breeding...
however, in recent years, young sires' have declined in popularity due to the economy, so that points to a self-correction.
but this year imo is an anomaly. these horses have suffered legitimate injuries. even if not normally career-ending, they certainly were season-ending. this is the type of occurrence that should cause a halt and re-examination by breeders.
take i'll have another for instance....i think there are two reasons he didn't get any real interest. one is commercial viability. his son hasn't exactly set the world on fire, and iha could be his one blip. but the other thing i wonder about-he's an unsound horse. it caused issues for him at two, and probably contributed to the early end of his career at three. is he actually the type of horse one wants to sire future racehorses?

i don't think this years travers is a good indication that the sport is going south in a hurry. i think it's just suffered because of a run of bad luck. but i do think people really need to take a step back and re-evaluate exactly why they choose who they choose for stud and broodmare purposes. the breeders would be doing themselves and everyone else involved if they would take a bit more effort in choosing who to stand.

another thing...just like in human medicine, veterinary science has taken huge strides. but in both cases, there hasn't been a real surge in better health or longevity. perhaps everyone involved needs to take some real time to consider what they're doing, how, and why. and where does it take them? are they improving the breed, and thus the sport?

[OldDog]

Like someone said, some Derbys are better than others.

This Travers may not feature, in some minds, the star power that they would like to see, but it definitely has some interesting handicapping angles, and it is fairly representative of what a summer 3YO race looks like when the season has lost a significant portion of the cream of its crop. As for me, I think it still has some very good and interesting horses as we look to the latter part of the year.

As for the "state of racing," if you don't like the Travers, then just look to the Pacific Classic. That race is loaded with opportunities and really interesting horses.

[Danzig]

http://www.drf.com/news/crist-traver...ling-after-all

crist on the travers...and i agree, it is an appealing race.

[declansharbor]

It's a real shocker that some horseplayers are chronic complainers!

I could see people having a legitimate gripe if the top guns were still in training and all decided to skip the race. Such isn't the case, so either bet it, or pick your ball up and go home (with your head down, kicking rocks, using expletives) Either way, Toga will survive!

[tywizard]

Looks like John V could have a big day.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

It's a real shocker that some horseplayers are chronic complainers!

I could see people having a legitimate gripe if the top guns were still in training and all decided to skip the race. Such isn't the case, so either bet it, or pick your ball up and go home (with your head down, kicking rocks, using expletives) Either way, Toga will survive!

Great betting race, horrible quality from what is expected of the race historically. I'm shocked that this is too difficult a concept for people to comprehend. Saying it is in no means bashing or blaming NYRA for it. It is what it is due to the depleted crop.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Ok.
Thanks.

Let me ask this, why should anyone believe these east coast horses are on the same level as those from Cali? They've been getting slapped around all year in the big races.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Let me ask this, why should anyone believe these east coast horses are on the same level as those from Cali? They've been getting slapped around all year in the big races.

I get this. I was on Secret Circle and Creative Cause very early on. Love Bode and Paynter. I get it, but I dont think its just that clear cut.
Liason stinks. He came east and his Dandy was nothing special. Nonios has only been a head and 1/2 length ahead of him out in Cali. I know Nonios ran well at Monmouth, but he was never winning that race. He kinda just sucked up IMO. Ill use him out of respect for you and a few other people who like him, a lot. And because while I think Alpha is OK, I know the pace was super soft last time. Alpha was actually a horse I liked a lot more with Hansen in. Better price and trip on Alpha had Hansen been in here. Nonios can clearly win. I love the way JV is riding. FIgure to sit close. I guess there really is no reasson to be against him.
Good Luck tomorrow, well today at this point. BTW I saw your comment about Castellano over on PA. The guy is a joke. His move last Saturday on that #9 horse from Monmouth, the horse was cutting back. I forgot the name. But he hearded out into the 2 or 3 and let the NY bred who I was totally against re rally/wire. Cost me an OK double. Im kinda sick of Castellano.

[RockHardTen1985]

Ill go ahead and post this again. Ill never understand it. A big weekend like this and people want to argue about NYRA and other crap rather then discuss the actual races.
Ill add that Im going to play Eddie K, and back up with Lukas. Try to get through this 8th with just 11,12.

Is Battle Hardened a live price or a trap in the 8th? He is 15-1ML, but feels like he will be around 6-1 at post time. Eddie K has great stats first time turf and dirt to turf. There is no speed in this race at all. He figures to be right up on the lead. Looking for some opinions on this race and this horse.

[ateamstupid]

Liaison doesn't stink and anyone who thinks he didn't run well in the Jim Dandy wasn't paying attention.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Liaison doesn't stink and anyone who thinks he didn't run well in the Jim Dandy wasn't paying attention.

I get the wide trip. I see it. But is it not a coincidence that this horse went way off form when he started running on real dirt? Then he gets back to Hollywood and runs 2 career tops, back to back. Then comes here and while he had a trip just seems slow again and makes no impact. Anyone who said LiaIson is a huge Hollywood horse for course would not be wrong.

[pucknut]

This is alpha 's coming out party and another step toward HOY
I am betting he loves this surface

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by pucknut

This is alpha 's coming out party and another step toward HOY
I am betting he loves this surface

He would have to be possessed by the ghost of Secretariat to even have a chance against the best older horses and the HOTY title.

[FATPIANO]

1. Zagora-Hungry Island
2. Jazzy Idea-Book Review
3. Unbridle's Note-Ever So Lucky
4. ALPHA-------------Golden Ticket/Atigun

[jms62]

My Super Box is 3-6-8-11

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I get the wide trip. I see it. But is it not a coincidence that this horse went way off form when he started running on real dirt? Then he gets back to Hollywood and runs 2 career tops, back to back. Then comes here and while he had a trip just seems slow again and makes no impact. Anyone who said LiaIson is a huge Hollywood horse for course would not be wrong.

His two dirt races were FAR from ideal trips, and he still ran ok.

[Sightseek]

thud!