My theory and feelings on Polytrack

Originally Posted by Honu

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….



To be honest it wouldnt hurt my feelings if I never saw a horse by Storm Cat again in my life. Of the ones I have been around or sat on I have found about 90% cant breath and or have bad feet and knees with the temperment of a pissed off badger or woman how ever you see it.

If you owned a Storm Cat mare you just paid $3 million for, you'd be singing a different tune.....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

If you owned a Storm Cat mare you just paid $3 million for, you'd be singing a different tune.....

It isnt going to change overnight. That is insane to think of. It would take decades to change the breeding habits. I gurantee you that Storm Cat will be worth the same or even greater in the near future.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Quite frankly, I'm a fan of the Storm Cats even though they are very fragile creatures. They run their hearts out, and I wouldn't mind riding one of those talented hot heads.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Quite frankly, I'm a fan of the Storm Cats even though they are very fragile creatures. They run their hearts out, and I wouldn't mind riding one of those talented hot heads.

have you ever been around one? honu is right, they are like pissed off badgers...and that's on a good day.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

have you ever been around one? honu is right, they are like pissed off badgers...and that's on a good day.

Nope, but I have probably around some that were just as bad or worse. I've been kicked, trampled, bitten, bucked off, rolled over on, and have ridden horses that no one else would get on (at my barn). I'm as brave and as gutsy as they come when it comes to riding horses. Bring on the Storm Cats. I've always been a sucker for the crazy ones anyway.

Sadly, I don't get to ride as much as I used to because of college. But, if I could get in with a TB racehorse trainer to work with the horses on the track, I would probably quit college in a heartbeat and go do that. Horses are my passion, my talent, and my gift from God.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

If you owned a Storm Cat mare you just paid $3 million for, you'd be singing a different tune.....

I wouldnt own one. It is just my opinion but I think he is one sire that the racing world would be better off without. How many horses by Storm Cat do you see running past their 3 yr. old year?

Originally Posted by Honu

I wouldnt own one. It is just my opinion but I think he is one sire that the racing world would be better off without. How many horses by Storm Cat do you see running past their 3 yr. old year?

I agree. I think Storm Cat and his fee is bad for horse racing.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Honu

I wouldnt own one. It is just my opinion but I think he is one sire that the racing world would be better off without. How many horses by Storm Cat do you see running past their 3 yr. old year?

Good Reward!

[Honu]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Good Reward!

Well there ya go, you found one.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

If you owned a Storm Cat mare you just paid $3 million for, you'd be singing a different tune.....

I have trouble feeling sorry for anyone who spends 3 million on an animal.

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

I have trouble feeling sorry for anyone who spends 3 million on an animal.

Damn, no wonder you're at Los Alaminos

..and no, I couldn't resist...

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Damn, no wonder you're at Los Alaminos

..and no, I couldn't resist...

what's Los Alaminos?

I really can't debate with someone who can't type.. honestly.

[Honu]

MY AVITAR SHOWED UP!!!!!!! YAY
Its Billy at Del Mar last summer.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff?

I really think you are now reaching here.
There is absolutely no similarity between a Mustang and a Thoroughbred. The Mustang was the one bred to run over dirt and grass, and they are doing just that on the plains of the West. The reality is Thoroughbreds are just as man made as the Polytrack they now race on. Thoroughbreds today are simply bred to get from point A to point B as fast as they can, regardless of how badly conformed they are, the fact of the matter is if Storm Cat was turned out in the plains of Montana, he would have his ass kicked by a 13 hand Mustang and driven off, and he would be too sore and crippled to do much about it. Thoroughbreds are bred to be fast, Mustangs have evolved to survive, big difference.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I really think you are now reaching here.
There is absolutely no similarity between a Mustang and a Thoroughbred. The Mustang was the one bred to run over dirt and grass, and they are doing just that on the plains of the West. The reality is Thoroughbreds are just as man made as the Polytrack they now race on. Thoroughbreds today are simply bred to get from point A to point B as fast as they can, regardless of how badly conformed they are, the fact of the matter is if Storm Cat was turned out in the plains of Montana, he would have his ass kicked by a 13 hand Mustang and driven off, and he would be too sore and crippled to do much about it. Thoroughbreds are bred to be fast, Mustangs have evolved to survive, big difference.

A horse is a horse of course of course...

Thoroughbreds are descendants of the Godolphin, Byerley Turk and Darley arabians... arabians were bred to do well in the desert (sand.) So what does this mean? We can turn this around and around, but the reality is that running on dirt and turf is DEFINITATELY what we have bred thoroughbreds to do... it will affect the way we breed our horses. It will...

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

What about horseshoes? Do you put those on your horse? For some reason, they haven't evolved to have horseshoes in their natural environment, but we use those.

What about Lasix and other similar drugs? Somehow they haven't evolved to handle the stress of racing we put them under...but (a) we still race them in a manner "foreign" to what they would otherwise encounter in nature and (b) drug them so they can handle it and even perform better...

How far are you willing to take your logic? Is Ned Ludd in your bloodline?


It seems to me that the people who are as strongly against poly have a very strong financial interest in its demise as the track owners installing it..."its impossible to handicap" (ie I can't win money on it)..."changes breeding" (ie my "proven" bloodline horse(s) will be worth less)...too hard to figure out how to train for it (ie I am not gonna make money with my horse on it). But those installing it are the evil ones all in it for the money...

Until or unless everyone gets real, cool off, and are willing to be rational and intellectually honest about this topic, wtf is the point. It all turns into a great big internet pissing match and/or conspriacy theory discussion that would make the president of the John Birch Society blush.

A) I am one who believes that horse shoes hurt horses and their health more than they help horses - so that isn't the best analogy to use with me because I agree..

B) I wouldn't be mad if Lasix were banned and no one could use it....I wish our game was more about horsemenship than meds, but its not....and the reason its not is because of stupid movements like the one we're talking about right now....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

A) I am one who believes that horse shoes hurt horses and their health more than they help horses

Hurt their health ?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Hurt their health ?

I know MANY horsemen and vets who believe that a combination of bad blacksmiths and the toe grabs on the hosre shoes are a HUGE factor to the unsoundness of their horses...

As a matter of fact, ONE OF THE TOP TRAINERS IN THE COUNTRY files off the toe grabs on ALL of his barn's shoes...all of them....so its like they're not even wearing shoes.....I can't say who because of the obvious risk with owners...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I know MANY horsemen and vets who believe that a combination of bad blacksmiths and the toe grabs on the hosre shoes are a HUGE factor to the unsoundness of their horses...

As a matter of fact, ONE OF THE TOP TRAINERS IN THE COUNTRY files off the toe grabs on ALL of his barn's shoes...all of them....so its like they're not even wearing shoes.....I can't say who because of the obvious risk with owners...

I would agree that a bad blacksmith and toe grabs (on front feet) can be a problem but you said shoes.
As for the "top horseman" who files all the toe grabs off...why not just shoe without toe grabs and save the poor farrier all that extra work?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

A) I am one who believes that horse shoes hurt horses and their health more than they help horses - so that isn't the best analogy to use with me because I agree..

B) I wouldn't be mad if Lasix were banned and no one could use it....I wish our game was more about horsemenship than meds, but its not....and the reason its not is because of stupid movements like the one we're talking about right now....

I agree completely... some people will just never get it.